pip tribunal won then bad news

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Comments

  • cristobal
    cristobal Online Community Member Posts: 984 Championing

    @rainbow58 - I think @poppy123456 offers good advice about the self test/ knowledge of the descriptors is sound. Some things that you might think are included aren’t.

    Reading your earlier post there are a couple of things that you might explain why AgeUK/CAB think you should have been awarded points when you haven’t….

    Being unable to use an oven isn’t included in ’cooking’ and scores 0 points.

    Nail-cutting isn’t included under washing/bathing.

    If you are unable to wash your hair without assistance you would score points but not for getting in/out of the bath because you don’t score for both.

    I don’t think being unable to go out due to ‘panic attacks’ scores as you have to be ‘overwhelmed’ but here is the bit from the DWP guidance so you can judge for yourself….

    OPD means distress related to a mental health condition or intellectual or cognitive impairment resulting in a severe anxiety state in which the symptoms are so severe that the person cannot undertake a journey without being overwhelmed. The threshold is a very high one - a claimant who is anxious, worried or emotional does not meet it.

    I hope this helps you…


  • rainbow58
    rainbow58 Online Community Member Posts: 80 Contributor
    ageuk and cab went thrun them and scored points on what i told them-the truth about m y disabilities.
    I cant use my oven because i cant use it safely or reliably.I can prepare a meal using a microwave but not an oven-THAT SCORES POINTS.! and I know i wont score for both but in cant do both so one would count -they should take the highest score.the point about nail cutting is that i cannot bend down to do it-and need assistance to do so-relates to not being able to reach lower body to wash.
    sound like your being picky .and citical 

  • cristobal
    cristobal Online Community Member Posts: 984 Championing
    edited May 2019
    @rainbow58 - I'm sorry if you think that - I'm trying to help you.

    I'm trying to point out the errors in your post which might explain why you think you should have scored 24 points and didn't.

    The point about the oven isn't anything to do with 'safely or reliably' - it just isn't included under 'cooking' - 

    Can I suggest that you read the DWP PIP assessment guidelines for yourself? 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,463 Championing
    Completely agree with everything @cristobal has pointed out here and i don't think they are being picky or critical here.

    This guide will help to understand the PIP descriptors more and is well worth having a read. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers

  • Waylay
    Waylay Online Community Member, Scope Member Posts: 965 Trailblazing
    @twonker 4th in 12 months?! Dear God. I'm sorry.

    @CockneyRebel I wish I'd known to treat the AR1 as a new application last time. :/
  • rainbow58
    rainbow58 Online Community Member Posts: 80 Contributor
    edited May 2019
    cristobal said:
    @rainbow58 - I'm sorry if you think that - I'm trying to help you.

    I'm trying to point out the errors in your post which might explain why you think you should have scored 24 points and didn't.

    The point about the oven isn't anything to do with 'safely or reliably' - it just isn't included under 'cooking' - 

    Can I suggest that you read the DWP PIP assessment guidelines for yourself?
    [removed by moderator]
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,463 Championing
    As a community champion here on scope i'd like to remind you that we are a friendly community and are here to help. Please be mindful of your comments.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Online Community Member Posts: 64,463 Championing
    Whether or not you should have scored points for preparing food will depend on the reasons why you're unable to do the activity safely and reliably.
  • twonker
    twonker Posts: 617 Empowering
    rainbow58 said:

    if they want to keep things simple why spend 2 hours interrogating.if the assessors want to keep things simple why was mine typing lengthy responses to my short or single word or non existent responses-why make up the **** he did and why lie?
    Most likely to justify why the assessor thinks that the claimant is wrong and is possibly not being entirely truthful?

  • twonker
    twonker Posts: 617 Empowering
    rainbow58 said:
    ageuk and cab went thrun them and scored points on what i told them-the truth about m y disabilities.
    I cant use my oven because i cant use it safely or reliably.I can prepare a meal using a microwave but not an oven-THAT SCORES POINTS.! and I know i wont score for both but in cant do both so one would count -they should take the highest score.the point about nail cutting is that i cannot bend down to do it-and need assistance to do so-relates to not being able to reach lower body to wash.
    sound like your being picky .and citical 

    The descriptors and associated points were made so narrow and intentional in order to help reduce the number of claims being awarded by the government/DWP.
    The DWP are continuously monitoring the level of awards and if they find that more are getting through the net past experience tells me that they will improve/tighten up the descriptors so as to make it less likely for future awards to be given.

    That is the one advantage PIP has over the previous benefit - DLA.
  • Antonia_Alumni
    Antonia_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 1,764 Pioneering

    Just to let you know that I’ve removed abusive comments from a member and taken appropriate action.

    We want the community to be a safe and supportive place and so I'm sorry that this wasn't the case with the comments from this user.

    If you see any similar posts, the quickest way to bring it to our attention is to click the "Flag"-> "Report" link under each comment. If you would like to avoid seeing content from a specific user, you can by using the ignore function to hide their discussion comment. You can also reach the community team by emailing community@scope.org.uk

    If you have any questions, don’t hesitate to get in touch.

    Best wishes,

    Antonia


  • twonker
    twonker Posts: 617 Empowering
    I agree entirely. After the results of my assessments/re-assessments not one assessor gave me credit for suffering from a range of mental illnesses including an early form of Dementia. Despite evidence confirming the conditions being sent in together with a DWP assessment  report crediting all of my difficulties and consequently awarding me a different benefit for life it was all ignored as 'not relevant' as described by the DM in one instance.
    I actually gave up reporting mental health issues in subsequent claim forms as it felt like I was hitting my head against a brick wall where no one believed me. 
  • corblimey
    corblimey Online Community Member Posts: 28 Contributor
    As long as you got the medical evidence to back up your claim
    the DWP can go take a long run and jump 
  • rainbow58
    rainbow58 Online Community Member Posts: 80 Contributor
    poppy123456 said:
    @rainbow58 you need to request the statement of reasons and record of proceedings from HMCTS and take both of these to an advice centre near you. If no error in law is found then you won't be able to appeal the decision.
    have recerived SOR fromHMCS-cant read the handwriting-almost all illegible-plus too  much to take in  -i dont understand complex language.one part i did see was "asked if used google maps and A-Z.."-i know for certain   i was not asked that.
    Am waiting appt from CAB-.IF they referred to things that were after October 2017 ie that i have a carer from november 2017-when they stated that it was only up to October 2017-does that count?
  • rainbow58
    rainbow58 Online Community Member Posts: 80 Contributor
    AgeUK and CAB often grossly overestimate what people are likely to score and in my experience, often have little understanding of the actual medical conditions. Every single PIP form I have ever read (thousands of them) has always massively overestimated the person's disability, especially relating to mental health. They like to use all the buzz words but all that does is flag up to the assessor that you didn't fill the form in yourself. 
  • corblimey
    corblimey Online Community Member Posts: 28 Contributor
    This is no lie or exaggeration all the disabled charities I asked to help including a benefits specialist solicitor have been worse than useless 

    not that i’m Bragging or anything, but what I achieved blew all the so called help I had before out of the water , so there is some truth in that saying “ if you want something done properly, do it yourself “ 

    only you know how you feel and how things affect you , no one no matter how much they claim they do , can possibly know that or understand, especially those who ate in it for the money 
  • Matilda
    Matilda Online Community Member Posts: 2,592 Championing
    I have heard that local authority welfare rights can be helpful with PIP problems.
  • corblimey
    corblimey Online Community Member Posts: 28 Contributor
    Tried em all even a pvt benefit solicitor which cost me £450.00 , which got me absolutely no where 
  • rainbow58
    rainbow58 Online Community Member Posts: 80 Contributor
    Matilda said:
    Your disabilities have to fit certain descriptors and apply at least 50% of the time.  Have a look at the list of descriptors on the Disability Rights UK site.  Try to get some help from CAB or similar, or local authority welfare rights.

    I got standard both components after assessment and enhanced both components after appeal.
    my disabilities do fit the descriptors and daily .i have always gone to the CAB for help completing the forms.
  • rainbow58
    rainbow58 Online Community Member Posts: 80 Contributor
    ilovecats said:
    rainbow58 said:
    cristobal said:
    @rainbow58 - I'm sorry if you think that - I'm trying to help you.

    I'm trying to point out the errors in your post which might explain why you think you should have scored 24 points and didn't.

    The point about the oven isn't anything to do with 'safely or reliably' - it just isn't included under 'cooking' - 

    Can I suggest that you read the DWP PIP assessment guidelines for yourself?
    [removed by moderator]
    @rainbow58 I’d suggest you behave more respectfully. You have come on here and asked for advice. If you don’t like the answers then don’t ask.

    I used to be an assessor and everything that @cristobel has said is correct.

    Using an oven is not considered for Activity 1. 
    The ability to stand and cook a meal on the job using fresh ingredients is.

    Ive said this already but CAB often grossly overestimate a persons disability. Normally because they just blindly believe what a person tells them, an assessor is trained to see what someone can do vs why they don’t do it and look for inconsistencies.

    poppy123456 has told you to read the guidance.  
    I’ll post a link here for you:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities
    ilovecats said:
    rainbow58 said:
    cristobal said:
    @rainbow58 - I'm sorry if you think that - I'm trying to help you.

    I'm trying to point out the errors in your post which might explain why you think you should have scored 24 points and didn't.

    The point about the oven isn't anything to do with 'safely or reliably' - it just isn't included under 'cooking' - 

    Can I suggest that you read the DWP PIP assessment guidelines for yourself?
    [removed by moderator]
    @rainbow58 I’d suggest you behave more respectfully. You have come on here and asked for advice. If you don’t like the answers then don’t ask.

    I used to be an assessor and everything that @cristobel has said is correct.

    Using an oven is not considered for Activity 1. 
    The ability to stand and cook a meal on the job using fresh ingredients is.

    Ive said this already but CAB often grossly overestimate a persons disability. Normally because they just blindly believe what a person tells them, an assessor is trained to see what someone can do vs why they don’t do it and look for inconsistencies.

    poppy123456 has told you to read the guidance.  
    I’ll post a link here for you:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities
    if anyone cant be supportive dont respond.too many opinionated people.difference between offering advice and being critical,It clearly states on the claim  form and they bang on about "doing things reliably and safely".yes and you need an oven to cook meals on.I cannot prepare meals from fresh ingredients nor stand for any length of time to do so,I have had arthrtis and raynauds affecting my hands since 1995 which is why I was initially awarded DLA indefintiely in 1998 on losing my job I could not do due to my disabilities..Saying it takes anyone one minute to walk 25 metres -people walk at different paces especially if disabled-asking how long it takes to walk 20 metres varies per individual-the distance  a non disabled person can walk in say ten minutes can take someone else-a disabled person maybe twice as long,it is about aids used to walk and how far -not timescale.
    It is a known fact and the assessor reports prove in black and white that the assessors lie through their back teeth,twist things around as to what they were exactly told and fabricate anything else.that is why ICE have received many thousands of complaints against ATOS\(Now iAS) and Capita..
    The CAB are trained advisers and my local CAB  filled in my forms for me based on what i told them.Not at any time did they exaggerate anything or put down anything i did not tell them.They were the ones that calculated my scores based on the descriptors.
    ie cannot get out of the bath unaided-3 points-
    cannot walk more than 20 metres aided or unaided.
    use aids to manage meds 
    use aids to manage toilet needs-the fact that they are used not where they are obtained from.
    my grab rails,bedrail,walking stick,bath seat were all provided by OT.
    i should have scored enough points for enhanced in both parts of PIP.

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