The Autumn Statement 2023
Comments
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@Meg24 my advice is to please stop reading those newspaper articles because they are only giving half the story in a very twisted way.The sanctions will not apply to those not expected to look for work.2
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A new offer for existing claimants assessed with LCWRA, to give them the confidence to try work:
8. We want claimants who have already been assessed as having LCWRA to be able to engage with support to move towards work without the fear of reassessment. As such, we will bring forward a new offer - a Chance to Work Guarantee for existing claimants on UC and ESA with LCWRA. This change will be effective from 2025, at the same time as WCA changes are introduced. This change will in effect abolish the WCA for the vast majority of this group, bringing forward a key element of our White Paper proposals and giving people the confidence to try work.
So how long would this guarantee last for? Would our awards continue indefinitely or will there be a cut off point? I've read through the entire document and that detail is conspicuous by its absence.
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Meg24 said:
"Mr Hunt said the measures will halve the number of people who are signed off work with no requirement to look for work.Meg24 said:
Sorry it's in the Independent. Says those who have no requirement to look for work will be cut by half.Meg24 said:
In the Guardian they quote him as saying cutting those who don't have to look for work by half.Becky93 said:Even the numbers are contradicting. We've heard 400,000 back into work, today we're hearing 200,000. Where is this half of the people on LCWRA coming from, as that would be over a million, absolutely no chance it will be as many as that.
Those who do not find a job after 18 months will then be given six months before theirpayments are cut off"
This in the Independent livestream section.
Might be badly worded but if taken as read it sounds like they're planning to boot half of us out of LCWRA and then cut us off after 18 months. As I said, maybe they've mixed it up but that's why we need more clarity. And Reeves needs to wake up to what that means in practice for us and get off her electioneering horse and make it clear she will change tack, if not we need to know that too. I know I don't want to end like that, I would rather leave while I still have a roof over my head.You really need to stop reading the livestreams, you won't get the information you need. What he actually said was :He says 100,000 people on benefits are signed off onto benefits without any requirement to look for work because of sickness or disability. He says treatement rather than time off will become the default and there will be greater flexibility to allow homeworking. Mr Hunt says 180,000 will be helped through the universal support programme and 500,000 for mental health treatment.
He says it will half the number of people signed off with no work search requirement.
There will also be £1.3bn to offer extra help to 300,000 people unemployed after a year without any sickness or disability.
If, after 18 months of "intensive support" job seekres haven't found a job there will be a mandatory work placement and if after six months they do not have a job, their benefits will be stopped.
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Meg24 said:
It's for sure a misleading quote. Half of LCWRA would be 1.2m people, no chance they are going get that many people off LCWRA and looking for work.
"Mr Hunt said the measures will halve the number of people who are signed off work with no requirement to look for work.Meg24 said:
Sorry it's in the Independent. Says those who have no requirement to look for work will be cut by half.Meg24 said:
In the Guardian they quote him as saying cutting those who don't have to look for work by half.Becky93 said:Even the numbers are contradicting. We've heard 400,000 back into work, today we're hearing 200,000. Where is this half of the people on LCWRA coming from, as that would be over a million, absolutely no chance it will be as many as that.
Those who do not find a job after 18 months will then be given six months before theirpayments are cut off"
This in the Independent livestream section.
Might be badly worded but if taken as read it sounds like they're planning to boot half of us out of LCWRA and then cut us off after 18 months. As I said, maybe they've mixed it up but that's why we need more clarity. And Reeves needs to wake up to what that means in practice for us and get off her electioneering horse and make it clear she will change tack, if not we need to know that too. I know I don't want to end like that, I would rather leave while I still have a roof over my head.
There's a long way to go for this to happen, and I strongly suspect it will be quietly dropped by Labour if and when they get in power. They won't openly say it on days like today, as it plays into Tory attack lines hands, but once they're in power it's not going to be a priority for them.
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Is it me or it's not actually clear what the plan is. On the one hand they're talking about changing the capability for work assessment and removing certain descriptors so less people are found as not fit for work. On the other this ties in with what they were saying earlier in the year that they're going to scrap the WCA altogether, and move towards one assessment, the PIP assessment. How do these two points converge as the assessments have some significant differences right now.Votadini said:A new offer for existing claimants assessed with LCWRA, to give them the confidence to try work:
8. We want claimants who have already been assessed as having LCWRA to be able to engage with support to move towards work without the fear of reassessment. As such, we will bring forward a new offer - a Chance to Work Guarantee for existing claimants on UC and ESA with LCWRA. This change will be effective from 2025, at the same time as WCA changes are introduced. This change will in effect abolish the WCA for the vast majority of this group, bringing forward a key element of our White Paper proposals and giving people the confidence to try work.
So how long would this guarantee last for? Would our awards continue indefinitely or will there be a cut off point? I've read through the entire document and that detail is conspicuous by its absence.
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So the livestream has it right then? Halving the number of people with no work search requirement. Well that's LCWRA currently. What's less clear is whether those people will be cut off after 18 months or whether that only applies to those on basic UCRay212 said:Meg24 said:
"Mr Hunt said the measures will halve the number of people who are signed off work with no requirement to look for work.Meg24 said:
Sorry it's in the Independent. Says those who have no requirement to look for work will be cut by half.Meg24 said:
In the Guardian they quote him as saying cutting those who don't have to look for work by half.Becky93 said:Even the numbers are contradicting. We've heard 400,000 back into work, today we're hearing 200,000. Where is this half of the people on LCWRA coming from, as that would be over a million, absolutely no chance it will be as many as that.
Those who do not find a job after 18 months will then be given six months before theirpayments are cut off"
This in the Independent livestream section.
Might be badly worded but if taken as read it sounds like they're planning to boot half of us out of LCWRA and then cut us off after 18 months. As I said, maybe they've mixed it up but that's why we need more clarity. And Reeves needs to wake up to what that means in practice for us and get off her electioneering horse and make it clear she will change tack, if not we need to know that too. I know I don't want to end like that, I would rather leave while I still have a roof over my head.You really need to stop reading the livestreams, you won't get the information you need. What he actually said was :He says 100,000 people on benefits are signed off onto benefits without any requirement to look for work because of sickness or disability. He says treatement rather than time off will become the default and there will be greater flexibility to allow homeworking. Mr Hunt says 180,000 will be helped through the universal support programme and 500,000 for mental health treatment.
He says it will half the number of people signed off with no work search requirement.
There will also be £1.3bn to offer extra help to 300,000 people unemployed after a year without any sickness or disability.
If, after 18 months of "intensive support" job seekres haven't found a job there will be a mandatory work placement and if after six months they do not have a job, their benefits will be stopped.
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10. For the overwhelming majority of existing UC claimants, this is a guarantee that they will not be reassessed if they try work, and it does not work out. ESA claimants undertaking permitted work will also not be reassessed. Therefore, for both groups, we will remove the barrier that trying work may mean they lose their LCWRA entitlement.Again a woeful lack of detail. How much permitted work? An hour a month?In theory these proposals could be beneficial for those of us 'lucky' enough to have LCWRA awards but without having all the details we simply don't know. To release a document as sparse in detail as this when it will affect the lives of millions of the most vulnerable people in the country is an absolute disgrace.4
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They cannot give detail at this very early stage, it's still just ideas. I've had a quick look through the Autumn statement paper and there's talk of "Work Capability Assessment (WCA): reform to descriptors" BUT not until 2025-2026.
Then a few other schemes (Restart seems notable) to be tested in 2024-2025. No actual details have been given, so please try not to panic. The focus appears to be only on Universal Credit.
I of course cannot speak on behalf of Scope in any of this. But please be careful about getting your information from many media outlets or social media, they'll often be twisting things so they get more clicks.2 -
There has now been a response published to WCA Consultation. You can find it on Gov website.0
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Becky93 said:Is it me or it's not actually clear what the plan is. On the one hand they're talking about changing the capability for work assessment and removing certain descriptors so less people are found as not fit for work. On the other this ties in with what they were saying earlier in the year that they're going to scrap the WCA altogether, and move towards one assessment, the PIP assessment. How do these two points converge as the assessments have some significant differences right now.It's not you, the document they've produced is a dog's breakfast.They're still saying they want to scrap the WCA and use the PIP assessment alone, but that will require legislation, so in the meantime they've tightened up the WCA descriptors and now we've got this ill defined 'Chance to Work Guarantee' which will kick in next year. I'm presuming they've intentionally left out most of the nasty details because there's no way they can reduce the number of people with LCWRA awards by half without conditionality being part of this so called guarantee.
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From the response to the WCA Consultation:
From 2025 onwards, we will make the following changes to WCA activities and descriptors:
Amending the LCWRA Substantial Risk regulations to realign Substantial Risk with its original intention of only applying in exceptional circumstances. We will specify the circumstances, and physical and mental health conditions, for which LCWRA Substantial Risk should apply. This will include protecting and safeguarding the most vulnerable, including people in crisis and those with active psychotic illness. We will work with clinicians to define the criteria and what medical evidence is required from claimants and people involved in their care, to ensure the process is safe, fair, and clear.
Remove the LCWRA Mobilising activity because new flexibilities in the labour market mean that many people with mobilising limitations can undertake some form of tailored and personalised work-related activity with the right support. To ensure those with the most significant mobilising needs are protected we will retain the current LCWRA Substantial Risk regulations for physical health. This means that where work preparation would lead to a deterioration in a claimant’s physical health, they would still meet the eligibility for LCWRA. We will not change the LCW Mobilising activity or descriptors.
Reduce the points awarded for the LCW Getting About descriptors, because new flexibilities in the labour market mean that there is less need to get to a place of work, and so limitations in getting about are less of a barrier to being able to work for some people. We will retain the highest scoring descriptor, to protect those claimants who have the most significant limitations under the getting about LCW activity.
25. These changes reflect the improvements in the modern workplace that have happened since the WCA activities and descriptors were last fully reviewed in 2011. Also, evidence shows supporting people to move towards and into work can be good for their health, wellbeing, and financial security.
26. We will not make changes to the following WCA activities and descriptors:
No changes will be made to LCWRA or LCW Continence, recognising the consultation responses and feedback which emphasised how incontinence seriously affects people’s dignity and mental wellbeing. Flexibilities in the workplace are insufficient to manage the unexpected nature of continence issues. Continence issues can be sudden and unanticipated, which can make management in either work or home environments difficult.
No changes will be made to LCWRA or LCW Social Engagement, recognising the consultation responses and feedback which suggested that almost all work requires engaging with people. As such, the significant limitations in capability for work that people scoring on this activity experience are less likely to be overcome by changes in the modern workplace or the greater flexibility of work.
27. These changes to the WCA will apply to new claims for ESA and to UC claimants who report a health condition and require an assessment. Changes to the WCA activities and descriptors will be implemented nationally no earlier than 2025.
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Source?Votadini said:A new offer for existing claimants assessed with LCWRA, to give them the confidence to try work:
8. We want claimants who have already been assessed as having LCWRA to be able to engage with support to move towards work without the fear of reassessment. As such, we will bring forward a new offer - a Chance to Work Guarantee for existing claimants on UC and ESA with LCWRA. This change will be effective from 2025, at the same time as WCA changes are introduced. This change will in effect abolish the WCA for the vast majority of this group, bringing forward a key element of our White Paper proposals and giving people the confidence to try work.
So how long would this guarantee last for? Would our awards continue indefinitely or will there be a cut off point? I've read through the entire document and that detail is conspicuous by its absence.
(if in the official autumn statement doc, what page? ……..I was skim reading pretty fast)0 -
Source?
(if in the official autumn statement doc, what page? ……..I was skim reading pretty fast)Here you go.
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Meg24 said:
So the livestream has it right then? Halving the number of people with no work search requirement. Well that's LCWRA currently. What's less clear is whether those people will be cut off after 18 months or whether that only applies to those on basic UCRay212 said:Meg24 said:
"Mr Hunt said the measures will halve the number of people who are signed off work with no requirement to look for work.Meg24 said:
Sorry it's in the Independent. Says those who have no requirement to look for work will be cut by half.Meg24 said:
In the Guardian they quote him as saying cutting those who don't have to look for work by half.Becky93 said:Even the numbers are contradicting. We've heard 400,000 back into work, today we're hearing 200,000. Where is this half of the people on LCWRA coming from, as that would be over a million, absolutely no chance it will be as many as that.
Those who do not find a job after 18 months will then be given six months before theirpayments are cut off"
This in the Independent livestream section.
Might be badly worded but if taken as read it sounds like they're planning to boot half of us out of LCWRA and then cut us off after 18 months. As I said, maybe they've mixed it up but that's why we need more clarity. And Reeves needs to wake up to what that means in practice for us and get off her electioneering horse and make it clear she will change tack, if not we need to know that too. I know I don't want to end like that, I would rather leave while I still have a roof over my head.You really need to stop reading the livestreams, you won't get the information you need. What he actually said was :He says 100,000 people on benefits are signed off onto benefits without any requirement to look for work because of sickness or disability. He says treatement rather than time off will become the default and there will be greater flexibility to allow homeworking. Mr Hunt says 180,000 will be helped through the universal support programme and 500,000 for mental health treatment.
He says it will half the number of people signed off with no work search requirement.
There will also be £1.3bn to offer extra help to 300,000 people unemployed after a year without any sickness or disability.
If, after 18 months of "intensive support" job seekres haven't found a job there will be a mandatory work placement and if after six months they do not have a job, their benefits will be stopped.
That is not what it says. The 18 month thing is for people on normal universal credit.
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Edit: original post answered0
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"Active Psychosis" worries me a bit. I am on a high dose of anti psychotic and as such I am not in active psychosis but even with the medication the pressures of employment would trigger an attack. So would I have to go to work because my psychosis is not active, for it to become active to then go back into LCWRA to get well again .. can see a magic merry go round on the horizon.2
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carbow32 said:"Active Psychosis" worries me a bit. I am on a high dose of anti psychotic and as such I am not in active psychosis but even with the medication the pressures of employment would trigger an attack. So would I have to go to work because my psychosis is not active, for it to become active to then go back into LCWRA to get well again .. can see a magic merry go round on the horizon.That only applies to a change to the 'substantial risk' descriptor in the WCA so will only effect assessments, and if I'm reading it right will also only apply to new claims.Hope this helps.3
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I second what you’ve said here albusAlbus_Scope said:
They cannot give detail at this very early stage, it's still just ideas. I've had a quick look through the Autumn statement paper and there's talk of "Work Capability Assessment (WCA): reform to descriptors" BUT not until 2025-2026.
Then a few other schemes (Restart seems notable) to be tested in 2024-2025. No actual details have been given, so please try not to panic. The focus appears to be only on Universal Credit.
I of course cannot speak on behalf of Scope in any of this. But please be careful about getting your information from many media outlets or social media, they'll often be twisting things so they get more clicks.
this published documents contain complex stuff and the way the dwp have written it is all jumbled and almost needs to be recoded like a puzzle (and even then we may still be missing snipits of info that would help this whole thing make sense……..aka explain to schedule & stages of all this in layman terms)
I imagine charities like scope will be reading these documents several times through before attempting to post a summary of the situation going forward?1 -
carbow32 said:"Active Psychosis" worries me a bit. I am on a high dose of anti psychotic and as such I am not in active psychosis but even with the medication the pressures of employment would trigger an attack. So would I have to go to work because my psychosis is not active, for it to become active to then go back into LCWRA to get well again .. can see a magic merry go round on the horizon.
This was in the guideline from the gov website.
9. These changes will mean that almost all people who are currently assessed as having LCWRA will never face a WCA reassessment again. Reassessments will only take place under very limited circumstances, which are:
- When a claimant reports a change of circumstances in their health condition;
- If a claimant has been awarded LCWRA for pregnancy risk, or cancer treatment where the prognosis for recovery is expected to be short-term;
- If a claimant has been declared as having LCWRAunder the new risk provisions; and
- In cases of suspected fraud.
I think these new provisions will only affect new claimants however I still am very skeptical and untrusting of this government…
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Does anyone know if the proposals also apply to Activity 2 - Unable to transfer from one seat to another without assistance from another person or is it purely limited to Activity 1 - Mobilising ?0
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