Your reaction to today's budget and the Health and Disability White Paper - Page 2 ‚ÄĒ Scope | Disability forum
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Your reaction to today's budget and the Health and Disability White Paper

245

Comments

  • Tina12
    Tina12 Community member Posts: 171 Pioneering
    @robjgr1
    I agree with you I have also only been on the lcwra a few months, it's so confusing frustrating and worrying sadly ūü§ē
  • Cartini
    Cartini Community member Posts: 1,108 Pioneering
    tomm said:
    Cartini said:
    To be honest, I think people are creating stress / unrest for themselves over something that may never enter into law.  A white paper is a consultation paper produced by the government to seek comments from the public over proposed changes.
    White papers do not always transition to law.
    I, personally, will not be reading any sensationalistic journalism on the subject; I`ll wait until a decision is formally announced by the government.


    Let's hope this Attack on the sick doesn't  because  in the current form  It will not work and will end in a massive infringement of human rights , making or COERCING disabled or sick People  to work IS WRONG unless they wish to work, but it has to be their choice NOT the DWP's or  SSWP
    Everyone is reading their own version into this prospective change (it`s a white paper, white papers are not always transitioned into law).
    My interpretation is that it`s to give disabled people who want to work that opportunity without penalising them (reducing benefits £ for £).

  • NotReally
    NotReally Community member Posts: 59 Pioneering
    Cartini said:
    Everyone is reading their own version into this prospective change (it`s a white paper, white papers are not always transitioned into law).
    My interpretation is that it`s to give disabled people who want to work that opportunity without penalising them (reducing benefits £ for £).

    Yes, agreed, but / and:

    It looks like there is cause for real concern about the use of PIP in place of the work capability assessment, and that both are deeply flawed in many ways.  Given the government's record in this area, it is not unreasonable to look at how to ensure that our voices are heard with the possible implimentation of these proposals. 

    You're quite right about this being prospective, but that's even more reason to get ourselves involved with the process, even though my gut feeling is that there's a large amount of distraction going on (don't look at the man behind the curtain!) and there will be a lot of just coasting along until the next election, at which point either things will start to happen with this, or a new lot will come along maybe with a different set of proposals. 

    Either way, let's ensure that nothing happens without us, the people who will be affected by any changes, are heard and are involved.
  • Cartini
    Cartini Community member Posts: 1,108 Pioneering
    NotReally said:
    Cartini said:
    Everyone is reading their own version into this prospective change (it`s a white paper, white papers are not always transitioned into law).
    My interpretation is that it`s to give disabled people who want to work that opportunity without penalising them (reducing benefits £ for £).

    Yes, agreed, but / and:

    It looks like there is cause for real concern about the use of PIP in place of the work capability assessment, and that both are deeply flawed in many ways.  Given the government's record in this area, it is not unreasonable to look at how to ensure that our voices are heard with the possible implimentation of these proposals. 

    You're quite right about this being prospective, but that's even more reason to get ourselves involved with the process, even though my gut feeling is that there's a large amount of distraction going on (don't look at the man behind the curtain!) and there will be a lot of just coasting along until the next election, at which point either things will start to happen with this, or a new lot will come along maybe with a different set of proposals. 

    Either way, let's ensure that nothing happens without us, the people who will be affected by any changes, are heard and are involved.
    Hi,
    I`m not trying to deter people from voicing their opinions or making themselves heard by the government, far from it. 
    I completely understand the concern held by people; the problem is that everyone has their own interpretation which, for want of an expression, turns an omelette into scrambled eggs.
    The biggest problem with this prospective change is that Starmer and his croanies have already stated they will reverse any changes this white paper proposes (or implements if it gets to that stage); that in itself is going to cause more unrest and distress.

  • Biblioklept
    Biblioklept Community member Posts: 4,289 Disability Gamechanger
    Cartini said:
    NotReally said:
    Cartini said:
    Everyone is reading their own version into this prospective change (it`s a white paper, white papers are not always transitioned into law).
    My interpretation is that it`s to give disabled people who want to work that opportunity without penalising them (reducing benefits £ for £).

    Yes, agreed, but / and:

    It looks like there is cause for real concern about the use of PIP in place of the work capability assessment, and that both are deeply flawed in many ways.  Given the government's record in this area, it is not unreasonable to look at how to ensure that our voices are heard with the possible implimentation of these proposals. 

    You're quite right about this being prospective, but that's even more reason to get ourselves involved with the process, even though my gut feeling is that there's a large amount of distraction going on (don't look at the man behind the curtain!) and there will be a lot of just coasting along until the next election, at which point either things will start to happen with this, or a new lot will come along maybe with a different set of proposals. 

    Either way, let's ensure that nothing happens without us, the people who will be affected by any changes, are heard and are involved.
    Hi,
    I`m not trying to deter people from voicing their opinions or making themselves heard by the government, far from it. 
    I completely understand the concern held by people; the problem is that everyone has their own interpretation which, for want of an expression, turns an omelette into scrambled eggs.
    The biggest problem with this prospective change is that Starmer and his croanies have already stated they will reverse any changes this white paper proposes (or implements if it gets to that stage); that in itself is going to cause more unrest and distress.

    Could you point me to a source for this? I'm interested to read what was actually said <3 

    Regardless, I wouldn't say that it is the biggest problem with the prospective change... 
  • Cartini
    Cartini Community member Posts: 1,108 Pioneering
    Cartini said:
    NotReally said:
    Cartini said:
    Everyone is reading their own version into this prospective change (it`s a white paper, white papers are not always transitioned into law).
    My interpretation is that it`s to give disabled people who want to work that opportunity without penalising them (reducing benefits £ for £).

    Yes, agreed, but / and:

    It looks like there is cause for real concern about the use of PIP in place of the work capability assessment, and that both are deeply flawed in many ways.  Given the government's record in this area, it is not unreasonable to look at how to ensure that our voices are heard with the possible implimentation of these proposals. 

    You're quite right about this being prospective, but that's even more reason to get ourselves involved with the process, even though my gut feeling is that there's a large amount of distraction going on (don't look at the man behind the curtain!) and there will be a lot of just coasting along until the next election, at which point either things will start to happen with this, or a new lot will come along maybe with a different set of proposals. 

    Either way, let's ensure that nothing happens without us, the people who will be affected by any changes, are heard and are involved.
    Hi,
    I`m not trying to deter people from voicing their opinions or making themselves heard by the government, far from it. 
    I completely understand the concern held by people; the problem is that everyone has their own interpretation which, for want of an expression, turns an omelette into scrambled eggs.
    The biggest problem with this prospective change is that Starmer and his croanies have already stated they will reverse any changes this white paper proposes (or implements if it gets to that stage); that in itself is going to cause more unrest and distress.

    Could you point me to a source for this? I'm interested to read what was actually said <3 

    Regardless, I wouldn't say that it is the biggest problem with the prospective change... 
    Sorry Biblioklept - my mistake. It`s the pension changes they will reverse (too much **** swimming around my head).
    It`s no longer the biggest problem now I`ve realised I mentioned the wrong reversal :#

  • Biblioklept
    Biblioklept Community member Posts: 4,289 Disability Gamechanger
    I know that feeling!! Hope it settles for you soon <3
  • g7iqj
    g7iqj Community member Posts: 86 Courageous
    66Mustang said:
    Just answering for myself but I'm sure my response will be similar to some others...

    I really want to get into work and would welcome support in finding a job that fits around my illness.

    But I worry the "support" will continue to be generic and not applicable to me; I need some sort of tailored support from someone who understands MY disabilities, not a "Jack of All Trades" type person who has read a book about disability and thinks they are an expert.

    I also worry that more things like having to attend meetings will apply, which I can't do. I can't use the telephone and cannot use computer programs like Zoom.

    In conclusion I think if they are offering truly tailored support, i.e. working with the same person from start to finish so they can get to know me and my needs, I like the idea. However...I won't lie, the announcements do strike my anxiety and doubt chords!

  • Cartini
    Cartini Community member Posts: 1,108 Pioneering
    I know that feeling!! Hope it settles for you soon <3
    Thank you :)

  • g7iqj
    g7iqj Community member Posts: 86 Courageous
    IAM  59  due to works accident degenrative for life  back issue mobility walking / standing .   10 %  industrial injury award .  GOOD  work record  payed 42 yrs class1 ni/ tax paye . so by pay min 35 yrs OAP PENSTION  payed for but cant claim it to 66 current .  I  work  as driver up to 3 days 30 hours week via AGENTCY  non manuall handle work  FEB- APRIL  quite top up with UC UNICREDIT . Which is top up not disability benefit .  FIND  full time 48 hours as wrd 5 days to much  psycially / mentally .  USE EQUALLITY DIV ACT 2010 RESONABLE ADJUSTNMENTS IN WORK .  NO manuall handle work /  part time hours .  LOT EMPLOYERS DONT WANT NO .   DONT thinck i reach  66  due degenrative back problem ,  7 year to i can claim oap penstion .  I TAKE  dim veiw makes u anexouis / nervous . THAT typically  flawed coroupt  selfserving arogent , tax offshore avading  TORY CONSERVATIVIES .  Typical   tory budget to conserve save money . TAKEN  right away for people with disabilitys  to retire early on health grounds . BECAUSE  people  age 55 - 64  with disabilitys are 2023 bulk off unemployed  we being forced to work to we drop / die get 66 . OLD  1920s  victortian work houses . work houses .  WE  being picked on  are freedooms choice piower control over our lives  taken from us .  MOST  over 55s payed min 35 yrs tax/ ni  paye class1  so we more payed our OAP  penstion + any benefits  we may claim .  TYPICAL TORY CON  rich get richer + poor poorer . as last 13 years  2010-dec 2024 . WE  GET AUSTERITY  to pay for lost revenue  in TAX OFFSHORE AVATION .  BY BIG corporates  certain mps , plc,s companys . ROLL ON ELECTION   dec 2024 max 5 years  GET  tory cons out . 
  • tifo
    tifo Community member Posts: 76 Connected
    worried33 said:

    So the new criteria is PIP qualification, thats the movement of the goal posts then.
    Yes, it seems so. If the proposals come into law, you'll need to be on PIP to get the equivalent of the current LCWRA element.

    They'd need to change the PIP assessment too as needing help in daily living is not the same as being able to work, though they like to think it is, i.e. if you don't get PIP then you're OK to work.
  • paries1
    paries1 Community member Posts: 380 Pioneering
    tifo said:
    worried33 said:

    So the new criteria is PIP qualification, thats the movement of the goal posts then.
    Yes, it seems so. If the proposals come into law, you'll need to be on PIP to get the equivalent of the current LCWRA element.

    They'd need to change the PIP assessment too as needing help in daily living is not the same as being able to work, though they like to think it is, i.e. if you don't get PIP then you're OK to work.
    Exactly , they‚Äôve said that getting PIP (any amount) will be a ‚Äėpassport‚Äô to getting ¬†the new ‚ÄėHealth Element‚Äô of UC. So you‚Äôll still have an assessment but it‚Äôll be a PIP assessment and if awarded anything this will be a way to get the health element of UC.¬†

  • JBS2022
    JBS2022 Scope Member Posts: 2,075 Disability Gamechanger
    Getting PIP won't stop job search requirements if the work coach deems it suitable, so it doesn't matter if PIP is not a fit for work benefit.
    Life is better in a fishtank¬† ūüźü
  • tifo
    tifo Community member Posts: 76 Connected
    Many people receive LCWRA but not PIP so the changes will remove this element, like it did for LCW in 2017. That's a lot of money to lose a month (approx £354 at the moment).
  • JBS2022
    JBS2022 Scope Member Posts: 2,075 Disability Gamechanger
    tifo said:
    Many people receive LCWRA but not PIP so the changes will remove this element, like it did for LCW in 2017. That's a lot of money to lose a month (approx £354 at the moment).
    I completely agree I'm not disputing that, but there is a misconception that's this new health element deems you unfit to work...that isn't the case.
    Life is better in a fishtank¬† ūüźü
  • g7iqj
    g7iqj Community member Posts: 86 Courageous
    tifo said:IF u have mobilty  issue standing   walking range  20 - 50 meteres on & bad day .  HOW you going leave the house  go anywere let alone do 1 days work ?????.  LACK COMMONSENSE / PRACTICALITY   IN THIS leaves u speech  less . JUST BECAUSE U DONT GET PIP   DOES NOT NOT MEAN U dont have disability cant work . THE TORY ROUGUES / CONS / DWP DONT LOOK IT LIKE THAT .  HOPEFULLY by dec 2024  TORY CONS ROUGUES  FLAWED COROUPT PARTY     VOTED OUT OUT .   SO  this may never come true  2025-2026 .  if LABOUR  come to power 2024 .  FINGERS crossed touch wood .   new criteria is PIP qualification, thats the movement of the goal posts then.
    Yes, it seems so. If the proposals come into law, you'll need to be on PIP to get the equivalent of the current LCWRA element.

    They'd need to change the PIP assessment too as needing help in daily living is not the same as being able to work, though they like to think it is, i.e. if you don't get PIP then you're OK to work.

  • g7iqj
    g7iqj Community member Posts: 86 Courageous
    JBS2022 said:
    Getting PIP won't stop job search requirements if the work coach deems it suitable, so it doesn't matter if PIP is not a fit for work benefit.
    SO if u produce  & sick/ fit   note   from GP   will DWP / UC  except  it as excuse u cant /  not fit to  work ?????    ATM    u  have up to  6 mouths  claiming   SSP   sick pay  26 weeks +   uc for housing eletnment / rent rebate . AFTER  26 weeks on SSP  Employer can make u redundant  as not fit to do the job u  employed to do  if not fit to work after 26 weeks .   &  26 weeks +   use to have  WCA/   ASSETNMENT  BY DWP . 
  • tifo
    tifo Community member Posts: 76 Connected
    g7iqj said:

    SO if u produce  & sick/ fit   note   from GP   will DWP / UC  except  it as excuse u cant /  not fit to  work ?????    ATM    u  have up to  6 mouths  claiming   SSP   sick pay  26 weeks +   uc for housing eletnment / rent rebate . AFTER  26 weeks on SSP  Employer can make u redundant  as not fit to do the job u  employed to do  if not fit to work after 26 weeks .   &  26 weeks +   use to have  WCA/   ASSETNMENT  BY DWP . 
    Even at the moment the DWP don't accept a GPs fit note as an 'excuse' that you can't work, that's why they have the WCA and it's then up to an assessor to decide. They can and regularly do over rule the GP/hospital and say there's nothing wrong with you. The DWP decision maker usually follows their recommendation.
  • paries1
    paries1 Community member Posts: 380 Pioneering
    I’m also one of the ones that gets LCWRA but not PIP so will be losing £390 ( goes up in April ) a month . 
    I’m trying not to worry because it’s not happening for a good few years yet ( if it happens at all ) . 
    Yeah it seems if these do come into place we’ll all be made to look for work by work coaches , I had a WC and I tell you they want you to do anything at all so they can tick a box and as Hunt said they’ll be given even more authority to sanction etc so they’ll be even worse . 
  • paries1
    paries1 Community member Posts: 380 Pioneering
    I’m just wondering if you get PIP will you then have to apply for the UC health support element ? Or will it be granted automatically? Somehow I doubt it , they’ll make it as difficult as possible I’m sure . 

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