Your reaction to today's budget and the Health and Disability White Paper - Page 4 — Scope | Disability forum
If we become concerned about you or anyone else while using one of our services, we will act in line with our safeguarding policy and procedures. This may involve sharing this information with relevant authorities to ensure we comply with our policies and legal obligations.

Find out how to let us know if you're concerned about another member's safety.
Please read our updated community house rules and community guidelines.

Your reaction to today's budget and the Health and Disability White Paper

124

Comments

  • stevie66
    stevie66 Community member Posts: 35 Courageous
    g7iqj said:
    DISAGREE WITH THAT  I    lost lot freinds  last 5 - 10  years. most 48- 64 lot  C/ CANCER RELATED  LOT   never made retirntment .  Because covid , other reasons LIVING  age over last 3 years droped  was avg 75-85 , now 75- 80 . Age   75 was avg age 15 years back thats what system was  set up for.   
    Facts and figures to help you understand.
    The average age of death in 1970 was 71.71 years
    The average age of death in 2020 was 81.15 years

    The age male state pension in 1970 was at 65 years
    The age male state pension should have been in 2020 at least 73 years of age.

    This is saying that in 1970 the average male would have received 6.71 years of state pension. Consequently as we now live longer it is only right that the time spent receiving the State Pension should reflect that fact. Thus in 2020 the retirement age for the pension should have been 73!  
    "Thus in 2020 the retirement age for the pension should have been 73"
    Well this is just bean counter fantasy.
    How can you not see, we have had an agreed retirement age and this is  a contract between the worker and the government.
    Work till your 65 then no matter how old you get or if you only live a short time your get the state penstion.
    Yes the fiscal issues when proper investment is not found when the age we live expand but they always knew the age we take retirement till death would expand as that was the whole purpose of the NHS, to create a healthier work force that lived longer and improved life. I'm not disagreeing for your figures just looking at the bigger picture.
    My questions is:
    Why investment was not following the age gap growth to cover the extra cash needed to avoid problems as we now see with the retirement age sliding?
    And
    As woman are living longer than men, should they under your schema retire later than men, to help balance the books?
  • 2oldcodgers
    2oldcodgers Posts: 743 Connected
    stevie66 said:


    How can you not see, we have had an agreed retirement age and this is  a contract between the worker and the government.

    Why investment was not following the age gap growth to cover the extra cash needed to avoid problems as we now see with the retirement age sliding?
    And

    As woman are living longer than men, should they under your schema retire later than men, to help balance the books?
    There was and never has been a contract that 65 for men and 60 for women should be able to retire on the State Pension. It was originally set at 60/65 for one reason only - the cost had to be affordable.
    The calculation worked on the basis of an estimate of number of years they would be on the pension before they died.
    Take 1971 for example the average age of death was 71 which meant an average total amount of pension would be paid for 6 years. That was what was agreed. Then in 2020 the average of age at death was 81. So the government had to find another approx 10 years of pension.
    Keep going like that and the State pension would have been unaffordable. Hence they increased the age of retirement to try and get back to the original 6 years of pension life.

    It is not possible to keep on ploughing more and more money into the Welfare budget for the State Pension. 

    That is sexist and cannot/will not feature in the State Pension. Men clamored for their pension age (65) to be equalized to that of a woman. The government listened and agreed so they increased the woman's age to receive the State Pension to 65 in stages.

    In talking about pensions surely the answer like everyone I know they have provided for their retirement by way of private pensions.
  • g7iqj
    g7iqj Community member Posts: 86 Courageous
     IT was B4 TORY CONSERVATIVE   penstion /  benefit reforms  2016 . . IF   you  had long term disability  claimed SSP  up to 26 weeks  you could not work  . Y ou then transfered  to invadility benefit after 26 weeks. HAD  proper medical assetnment by employed  DWP  doctor , if they agreeded with ur own doctor  you just had yearly medicals .  
  • stevie66
    stevie66 Community member Posts: 35 Courageous
    I beg to differ on there not being a contract, as such i refer to contract law where a service is being provided over a number of years and there for could be expected to be continued with out there being a writen agreement, however I'm diversifying.
    Thing is we should be a little more like the French regurding this and I belive it is a choice not to invest for multiple govements what ever leaning.
  • g7iqj
    g7iqj Community member Posts: 86 Courageous
    stevie66 said:


    How can you not see, we have had an agreed retirement age and this is  a contract between the worker and the government.

    Why investment was not following the age gap growth to cover the extra cash needed to avoid problems as we now see with the retirement age sliding?
    And

    As woman are living longer than men, should they under your schema retire later than men, to help balance the books?
    There was and never has been a contract that 65 for men and 60 for women should be able to retire on the State Pension. It was originally set at 60/65 for one reason only - the cost had to be affordable.
    The calculation worked on the basis of an estimate of number of years they would be on the pension before they died.
    Take 1971 for example the average age of death was 71 which meant an average total amount of pension would be paid for 6 years. That was what was agreed. Then in 2020 the average of age at death was 81. So the government had to find another approx 10 years of pension.
    Keep going like that and the State pension would have been unaffordable. Hence they increased the age of retirement to try and get back to the original 6 years of pension life.

    It is not possible to keep on ploughing more and more money into the Welfare budget for the State Pension. 

    That is sexist and cannot/will not feature in the State Pension. Men clamored for their pension age (65) to be equalized to that of a woman. The government listened and agreed so they increased the woman's age to receive the State Pension to 65 in stages.

    In talking about pensions surely the answer like everyone I know they have provided for their retirement by way of private pensions.
    THIS is not  about state penstion age . its about  people who for 1 reason or another  CANT  work because disabilitys .  FORCING  people  55- 64 who cant  because of disability back into full time work . 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 52,417 Disability Gamechanger
    g7iqj said:
     IT was B4 TORY CONSERVATIVE   penstion /  benefit reforms  2016 . . IF   you  had long term disability  claimed SSP  up to 26 weeks  you could not work  . Y ou then transfered  to invadility benefit after 26 weeks. HAD  proper medical assetnment by employed  DWP  doctor , if they agreeded with ur own doctor  you just had yearly medicals .  

    Invalidity benefit was introduced in 1971 and was replaced by Incapacity Benefit in 1995.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • scraggs
    scraggs Community member Posts: 76 Courageous
    I'm confused how they will force disabled people back into work 😭 I understand some people with disabilities want to work but I am confused how the government will force people who are disabled that cannot possibly work into the workplace 😕 I for one would be at risk of falls fatigue numbness etc etc who would employ me knowing I would possibly phone in to say I cannot come in I'm restricted to my bed 🛏️ ( secondary progressive multiple sclerosis) also who would be liable for me having falls etc etc in workplace DWP or the workplace 😕 I would be a liability I would love to work if I could but my illness is not allowing me too 😩 do I go to work in my bed 🛏️? I can hardly stand if I sit it causes stiff spine neck and muscles 😭 I have only just received pip enhanced does that mean they will override pip ? And send me to work ? I can't sit at a pc and use it I get muscle spasms that are so painfull in my arms and hands I would be absolutely useless 😕😩😭 the bloody uc make me log in every month but not my husband who is my full time carer don't make sense I have to wait for my daughter to log me in 😭 it's mental they make the person that's disabled log in but not the carer ?? It's madness 😡 also for the pension thing why is it if your classed as disabled that you can't be signed off as not being able to work retire early as some cannot ever work so why do we have to wait untill the exact date we retire if they know full well some people will never go into workplace !! I retire 2027 that's my retirement date but I at that time will be worse than I am now so how will they justify to force me to work 😭? You know what for what it's worth they can stick it where the sun don't shine 😕 I know my capabilities and it is nearly zero and getting worse on a daily basis 😩 I would rather die out the way than bow down with all there absolute **** of mega stress money is nothing my health is what matters and I won't go as low as they want me too I would rather starve than be ridiculed by this Tory government I won't let them belittle me any way shape or form just for pittance 😡 got control you must sign in on UC etc !!! I am struggling can't they get it ? My husband is dislexic  we have told them I have to wait for my daughter to be available to sign us In !!!!!! **** can't they grasp I'm the one disabled and I'm forced to sign in 😡 which I struggle with , I know a friend he don't have to sign in gets his money etc there's me very poorly and forced to sign in 😭 I have contacted mp and still it says it's my commitment to sign in but the so called friend don't have to due to being dislexic !!!! Just proves they give one rule to one and one rule to another 😡 I have had no help along the way from ms society etc etc the system is **** it just so stressful and stress is not good with ms so everyday I live in fear why should that be for thousands of genuine disabled people now they have added fear of a new health assessment what the hell is going on? Just think if no one protests against all government changes we have no chance in life 😩😭😡
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 52,417 Disability Gamechanger
    @scraggs nothing is going to happen yet, (if it happens at all), it will be at least 2026/7 and potentially 2029. Please calm down and try to relax.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • g7iqj
    g7iqj Community member Posts: 86 Courageous
    edited April 2023
    IF it does come law  want be  to 2026 take 3 years   2029 full  come live .  YES how are they going  GoING PUSH  people back  work with mobility issues ???.  TORY CONS   SEEM TO want target 55- 64 YRS   to start with .  LETS hope torys dont win next election by dec 2024 is 5 yr dead line .  IAM 59  Degenrative for life  spine back issue . mobilty  stand  1 minuite /walk 20- 50 meteres with out sitting . I still work up to 30 hours  3 days  week  all i can manadge now psysicaly , mentally .  provided i earn AET  £670 mouth  UC leaves you alone  you in   light/ soft touch .  BUT if you earn  under £AET  then coach   calls you for weekly phone calls / vists to jobcentre   mayhem .   SO  yes feel ur pain . IF  uretire 2027  IF WHEN NEW RULES WANT APPLY TO YOU . AS it take to 2029  full inplitment /    AGAIN may never happen with govertnment change 2024/ 2025.  take care .  
  • scraggs
    scraggs Community member Posts: 76 Courageous
    Thankyou poppy m sorry I ranted but it stresses me out get over one hurdle then only to face another but as you say  I'm calm now and hopefully it won't be brought in but it's all scaremongering 💕 I'm sorry I ranted😩
  • g7iqj
    g7iqj Community member Posts: 86 Courageous
    edited April 2023
    2oldcodgers said:AS i  said b4 .  59 now , LEFT SCHOOL 1979/ 1980 .  THE  ROT started with  1920S NEOLIBRAIL  tory conservativies  MAGGIE THATCHER  1980S  policys politics , slow dismantle off our ENGLISH  sochial system  swing far right . OUR SOCHIAL SYSTEM / WHICH WORKED FINE 1948-1979 PUT  PEOPLE 1ST NOT CAPATAILST GREED MONEY SELFISHNESS  .  With maggie  IT WAS SOLD OFF CLOSED DOWN . publics utilitys bus , train ,  electric gas, water,  council sochial housing  stelle works/ boat yards , coal mines manufacturing .   NHS under funded . FAIR enougth  THATCHER  put 3.25 milltion on dole by late 80s . BUT she did not touch BENEFITS system  unlike todays CONS 2010-2024. MAGGIE THATCHER THE MILK  SNATCHER/  THARTCHERUISM  STARTED what we have today.  40 + years on england reaps what maggie sowed . 2010may - dec2024  PRESENT  flawed coroupt  LATEST BATCH CON MERCHANT FAR RIGHT .  BIGGEST  lot selfservers going  arogent  selfish  greedy figure judglers . 5 PRIMINSTERS in  13 YRS LOL SICK JOKE .  13 YRS off austerity / cuts for many TAX OFFSHORE  AVATION  FOR FEW  INC CERTAIN   MP / JCRM , cayman islands signapore . ENGLANDS in bad place purely because there TORY CONS   1920s neolibrail victortian  policys/ politics  last 13 years .  TORYS create antisochial / dog eat dog  country  .HARSH   lack companastion/ empathy  . WERE capatailist greed 4 few rules  use money as form power control weapon  PURE EVIL  nasty people .   not see, we have had an agreed retirement age and this is  a contract between the worker and the government.

    Why investment was not following the age gap growth to cover the extra cash needed to avoid problems as we now see with the retirement age sliding?
    And

    As woman are living longer than men, should they under your schema retire later than men, to help balance the books?
    There was and never has been a contract that 65 for men and 60 for women should be able to retire on the State Pension. It was originally set at 60/65 for one reason only - the cost had to be affordable.
    The calculation worked on the basis of an estimate of number of years they would be on the pension before they died.
    Take 1971 for example the average age of death was 71 which meant an average total amount of pension would be paid for 6 years. That was what was agreed. Then in 2020 the average of age at death was 81. So the government had to find another approx 10 years of pension.
    Keep going like that and the State pension would have been unaffordable. Hence they increased the age of retirement to try and get back to the original 6 years of pension life.

    It is not possible to keep on ploughing more and more money into the Welfare budget for the State Pension. 

    That is sexist and cannot/will not feature in the State Pension. Men clamored for their pension age (65) to be equalized to that of a woman. The government listened and agreed so they increased the woman's age to receive the State Pension to 65 in stages.

    In talking about pensions surely the answer like everyone I know they have provided for their retirement by way of private pensions.

  • Lottgelady
    Lottgelady Community member Posts: 19 Courageous
    scraggs said:
    I'm confused how they will force disabled people back into work 😭 

    They will sanction your benefits - if you don't work or spend 35 hrs (I think?) a week looking for work - with proof that you have, they will take a proportion of the benefit off you .... that's how it's done ....
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 52,417 Disability Gamechanger
    scraggs said:
    I'm confused how they will force disabled people back into work 😭 

    They will sanction your benefits - if you don't work or spend 35 hrs (I think?) a week looking for work - with proof that you have, they will take a proportion of the benefit off you .... that's how it's done ....

    No one can speculate anything at this stage because there's no further details announced. The regulations will need to be put into place first and that's a long way off, if it happens at all.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • Wibbles
    Wibbles Community member Posts: 1,552 Pioneering
    I worked full time for 30 years and then my disabilty started to get the better of me so I took medical retirement - got bored and found a part time job (10 hours per week) - which I did for another 10 years before my health problems did it again (not exactly helped by covid) and I finally retired from all work aged 57, 2 years ago on enhanced PIP (both) - don't know what the government expects people like myself to do ?
    Return to work 2 hours a week perhaps ?

  • g7iqj
    g7iqj Community member Posts: 86 Courageous
    Wibbles said:
    I worked full time for 30 years and then my disabilty started to get the better of me so I took medical retirement - got bored and found a part time job (10 hours per week) - which I did for another 10 years before my health problems did it again (not exactly helped by covid) and I finally retired from all work aged 57, 2 years ago on enhanced PIP (both) - don't know what the government expects people like myself to do ?
    Return to work 2 hours a week perhaps ?

    YEP seems that is way ther thincking . WE  have wait see  bit time off /   HOPE TORY CONS want be in power  from dec 2024 .  So want happen . 
  • 2oldcodgers
    2oldcodgers Posts: 743 Connected
    scraggs said:
    I'm confused how they will force disabled people back into work 😭 I understand some people with disabilities want to work but I am confused how the government will force people who are disabled that cannot possibly work into the workplace 😕 I for one would be at risk of falls fatigue numbness etc etc who would employ me knowing I would possibly phone in to say I cannot come in I'm restricted to my bed 🛏️ ( secondary progressive multiple sclerosis) also who would be liable for me having falls etc etc in workplace DWP or the workplace 😕 I would be a liability I would love to work if I could but my illness is not allowing me too 😩 do I go to work in my bed 🛏️? I can hardly stand if I sit it causes stiff spine neck and muscles 😭 I have only just received pip enhanced does that mean they will override pip ? And send me to work ? I can't sit at a pc and use it I get muscle spasms that are so painfull in my arms and hands I would be absolutely useless 😕😩😭 the bloody uc make me log in every month but not my husband who is my full time carer don't make sense I have to wait for my daughter to log me in 😭 it's mental they make the person that's disabled log in but not the carer ?? It's madness 😡 also for the pension thing why is it if your classed as disabled that you can't be signed off as not being able to work retire early as some cannot ever work so why do we have to wait untill the exact date we retire if they know full well some people will never go into workplace !! I retire 2027 that's my retirement date but I at that time will be worse than I am now so how will they justify to force me to work 😭? You know what for what it's worth they can stick it where the sun don't shine 😕 I know my capabilities and it is nearly zero and getting worse on a daily basis 😩 I would rather die out the way than bow down with all there absolute **** of mega stress money is nothing my health is what matters and I won't go as low as they want me too I would rather starve than be ridiculed by this Tory government I won't let them belittle me any way shape or form just for pittance 😡 got control you must sign in on UC etc !!! I am struggling can't they get it ? My husband is dislexic  we have told them I have to wait for my daughter to be available to sign us In !!!!!! **** can't they grasp I'm the one disabled and I'm forced to sign in 😡 which I struggle with , I know a friend he don't have to sign in gets his money etc there's me very poorly and forced to sign in 😭 I have contacted mp and still it says it's my commitment to sign in but the so called friend don't have to due to being dislexic !!!! Just proves they give one rule to one and one rule to another 😡 I have had no help along the way from ms society etc etc the system is **** it just so stressful and stress is not good with ms so everyday I live in fear why should that be for thousands of genuine disabled people now they have added fear of a new health assessment what the hell is going on? Just think if no one protests against all government changes we have no chance in life 😩😭😡
    Excuses, excuses!
  • 2oldcodgers
    2oldcodgers Posts: 743 Connected
    Wibbles said:
    I worked full time for 30 years and then my disabilty started to get the better of me so I took medical retirement - got bored and found a part time job (10 hours per week) - which I did for another 10 years before my health problems did it again (not exactly helped by covid) and I finally retired from all work aged 57, 2 years ago on enhanced PIP (both) - don't know what the government expects people like myself to do ?
    Return to work 2 hours a week perhaps ?
    I was seriously injured at work after 27 years of working. I was medically retired, pensioned off and told by the medics, my employer and the DWP that I would never be able to work full time ever again.
    Rubbish they don't know what I am capable of.
    Within a week I found another job which they offered 16 hours a week. I refused and demanded a minimum of 35 hours a week.
    Then at 65 I received my State Pension after retiring. I couldn't stand the boredom of not working. Couldn't find another job so decided to volunteer working 35 hours a week. I did this until last month and decided a few weeks ago at age 74 that I wanted to take life easier. I'm bored again now and need to work to prove that I will not be written off. So at the moment I am looking around to see which charities are hiring on a voluntary basis. 
    You would be surprised what you can achieve if you put your mind to it.
  • vikingqueen
    vikingqueen Scope Member Posts: 1,397 Disability Gamechanger
               And you would be surprised what you can't do with some disabilities, not everyone is as lucky as you are @2oldcodgers...
  • L_Volunteer
    L_Volunteer Community Volunteer Adviser, Scope Member Posts: 7,979 Disability Gamechanger
    If you are interested in what charity jobs are available @2oldcodgers, you might find the Charity Jobs UK website helpful  :)
    Community Volunteer Adviser with professional knowledge of education, special educational needs and disabilities and EHCP's. Pronouns: She/her. 

    Please note: if I use the online community outside of its hours of administration, I am doing so in a personal capacity only.

Brightness

Complete our feedback form and tell us how we can make the community better.