WCA consultation ruled unlawful - White paper, part 2
Comments
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If all the migrants went home tomorrow do you really think your benefits would increase? Or become easier to apply for? Nothing would change, things for us would remain as miserable as they always have been sadly
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Dear Kimmy21,
Thank you for saying:
I don't wish to pull the thread off topic, but under Universal Credit
legislationall be overpayments are recoverable. Including those that are the DWP's fault.
I will be consulting Mind's Legal Unit, public lawyers, pro bono unit, etc.
to see if there is a case to answer
as, morally, I cannot see why the claimant should be punished b the law when the overpayments may not be their fault, but the DWPs error.
Law is about common good, and ethics as a means to that.
I will report back to this forum in due course.
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i thought this thread was about the wca not about immigration or paying back overpayments if it wasnt for the foreign workers here legally propping up the country heaven forbid what would happen unemployed would have to get a job kids could leave school at 16 and get paid work and not be a burden to there parents giving people brains with no common sense is working very well from my limited eyes
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Any disabled person can be a victim of DWP overpayments of ESA and PIP, made in error,
so it is relevant because disabled people will suffer hardship, and stress.
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but there not suffering hardship when they are getting more than they should that they could check themselves but they keep quiet about then play in your own words the victim i am disabled and will suffer hardship and stress when they get found out the rules are as plain as day like it or not
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do you know whats going to happen do i know whats going to happen no i sure as hell am not going to fret over anything and probably wont even when and if it does i think threads full of whats and ifs and speculation are detrimental to a lot of people on this site
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cutting benefits and reducing the benefit bill is two different things i am sure all will be revealed in good time they have a few years left in power yet
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We are living in a country run by villians tories did for 14 years labour in my eyes worse its lime thier given budgets money to spend on say nhs its like they see the money and begrugde giving it to public and filter out to friends honestly i dont know how much more can take of it all i understand benfit bill out of hand but change things like habe to have the illness for a year or so not three months how long the illness disabilites effected you because pushing serious mentally ill to work could be dangerous for workers as people crack i do i couldnt do homeless no way habe to exit my daughyer says i wont let anything happen to you but she doesnt know how dwp are she thinks im blowing out of proportion
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We know that many people feel strongly about the current state of the UK and speculated changes to benefits and it is understandable that people will have different opinions on the cause. Immigration and benefits are complex topics, and it’s normal for people to have strong opinions. However, it’s important that we talk about these issues in a way that’s respectful and based on facts, rather than spreading hurtful stereotypes or division.
Please ensure any future discussion remains respectful and civil and in line with our house rules.
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Dear Morgan-scope,
thank you; I noticed aracist comment yesterday in this forum,but chose to ignore it.
prejudices are against scope discussion forum rules, including respec for everyone.
As a Brtish Asian I know full well how racism can be cruel is cruel: bullying at school, ''e.g. Paki go home'' when I was born in Leeds, and racists usually like black music and curry?!
without immigration because peple are not having enough chilren, immigration is necesary, and further a lot of british folk wont do menial low paid work. Imigrants do.
Also, I have to say I'm disappointed that the discussion here has been so narrowly limited do not we scope mebers have a say, in this democratic process.
The discussion should be around:
- WCAs, and tests for PIP, SDP DP too.
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campaigning, or do we not have input into this, campaigning to get a better new law on supporting people into work, if they ant to instead of being hammered forced, made to feel powerless, stigmatised, anxious, depressed, even suicidal.
The forum mebers should lead the aims of the discussion
also overpayments are relevant as they if not granted as a grant given DWP and Jobcentre staff errors, firther punish disabled people and punish hem, e.g. casing hardship by repayment.
So this is a comnstructive complaint to pass on to your CEO, Campaigns Dept and trustees please.
Milan Ghosh.
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Someone above said they expect another email telling them off for expressing their views, that is against the human right to ones own views, and beliefs which is a right under the ECHR Right to consciience, belief thoyught religiouys and seculr views.
If they were so told off by SCOPE that is not fair right or moral, it does not reflect respect for others as a ground rule for he discussion forum, is both immoral and illegal as the UK is still a member of the ECHR.
With respect, and compassion for all, we need to be more rigourous and adhere to democratic rules, laws and human rights in SCOPE, or we have no right to ask the govt to reespect disabled people, by writing into a new benfits and work law, human rights that protect us as disabled people.
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This is Scope's forum, they are perfectly entitled to have their own house rules and enforce them.
By making an account here you agreed to those rules as part of using the forum.
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Its not democratic, and members don't have a say, that's unfair, and I'll campaign if restriction of debate continues.
My concern is not to argue but to help create an effective campaign to make disability benefits law and work laws disability friendly.
That is all.
What is wrong with working out a consensus and effective campaign, seriously?
no one can dictate in a democracy.
There are other disability groups who respond to the reasonable, entirely reasonable requests above for the befit of disabled people.
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Good afternoon @MadMilan2019,
Thank you for your feedback. You'll be pleased to know that we do not restrict debate and actively encourage people to share their opinions and views, so long as it is done in a civil and respectful manner. As such, you will find many different views and opinions across the community.
As with all online communities, we do have a list of content we do not allow. You can find this in our house rules and I have copied it below for your convenience:
Content we do not allow
We may remove, edit or moderate content if we believe it is:
- impersonating someone
- against the law
- harassing, inaccurate, defamatory, abusive, disrespectful, offensive, pornographic, racist, sexist, threatening, vulgar, obscene, hateful or otherwise inappropriate
- insensitive
- misleading
- dangerous to others
- advertising
- crowdfunding or asking for money
- infringing copyright
- personal information, like address, email or phone number
- not relevant to the community
- medical advice
We may close or hide discussions if we feel they threaten the safety of the online community. Material will be removed as soon as possible.
This is to protect our members and the online community as a whole.
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You have passion thats good dont ever lose it but i really dont think The ECHR rules are followed if they was why we been treated so bad
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Makes me so angry seeing Starmer off to Ukraine talking of constant support funding a war abroad.
It seems like there is compassion for people not in this country yet none for the vulnerable here. Makes me think that the disabled are just numbers to reduce whilst certain folk coming here are put in hotels. How much of the foreign aid money could be given to the elderly here. I can't believe they can't think that when most of us here do and I suspect most people that aren't in power. Makes me so angry.
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I am sorry, partly, for my comment of yesterday; I felt hurt by someone saying SCOPE can decide this forum nly discusses WCA. My aim is not selfish, and I am not a proud or self-righteous man, only a practicing Buddhist and practicing Socialist.
The problem for me is how SCOPE and other disability organisations can build a consensus, and effective alliance so that the white paper is shaped primarily by disabled people in a common view and practice compassionate for those disabled people who want to work, with effect supports defined by disable people. And enough support, and more than in he past, to help the rest participate in all area of society, a better, more human society.
If we restrict debate to WCAs, and it is a friendly debate, not a personal attack on anyone in SCOPE or its forum, to get an effective strategy to shape the new law of disability benefits and work, in our favour, and to implement human rights of ours.
That is all.
I really value this forum, but no one has explained why the debate has been so restricted to WCAs? Part of democratic debate is transparency, explaining things o citizens so they have informed choices, which by the way is another of many basic human constitutional rights.
Can someone kindly explain please. I and I'm sure a few others would really appreciate it.
I understand he govt is rethinking it proposed law, and much is undefined right now, but if SCOPE and other disability organisations, only react to the govts proposals then are we not on the back foot? Could we not have a survey of all SCOPE members with a questionaire on what disabled people want from the new law please?
That should be the first question, please, then others on the WCA the benefit tests for PIP, SDP, DP and all other disability benefits?
I have been a campaigner in many mental health and disability organisations for 31 years, and usually when new laws are proposed on mental health, and or physical disability these representative and campaigning advocacy groups do do a survey of their members.
I am sorry if I have offended any one and been too direct, my aim is t get us on the front foot and influence the new law as much as possible in our favour.
I do not know people very well on this forum, but it is part of my practice to give the benwfit of the doubt to every human being, see the best in them, their potential for good, and se the best in every situation for compassion, and more equality.
Thus I have no pride or self-righteousness, because those unskillful qualities make for suffering, and negative conflict, not social inclusion, or compassion. I am sure the group is wiser than individual members, and no one is an expert on everything, including me..
I felt disheartened when there was a squabble in this forum, and glad when those arguing resolved it. Any fool can argue and disrespect others, who can make for creative conflict and an effective strategy re the new law.
I nearly killed myself with overdoses several times over 20 years ago, because the cruel stress of befit tests for ESA and PIP DLA and DWP staff and doctors did not follow basic UK LAW and unalterable Constitutional human rights such as I outlined in previous weeks:
Right to Life Article 2 ECHR
Right to one's own views beliefs, thought, conscience and religion, and political views, again Google ECHR please
duty of care not to cause harm and promote health
And others, please read my previous contributions, for your benefit, not mine. Thank you kindly.
Ellen has been a brave and knowledgeable star taking the govt to court, and I will read the legal judgement in detail and summarise at least some of it soon, in order to allay at least some of our anxieties.
What is so horrible is I and others have at least sometimes felt suicidal, just in fearful anticipation of an unfriendly oppressive new law, others I'm sure at least a few will already have suicided, with the stress. Part of my chronic and life threatening disabilities are complex PTSD, chronic depression and anxiety, and my father, brother, and 15 other disabled people I knew killed themselves because of maltreatment by the system, of care, psychiatry and abuse. I still carry that burden of trauma, but choose to character build and raise awareness because i do not want others to die so unnecessarily.
That is why I alerted people to the horrible fact 16,000 disabled people al of them who were cut off from benefits, and our basic human rights.
YES WE CAN get better hel and support re work and disability benfits.
Consciousness raise, assert our case, and our humanity, make a survey, and alliance, we can do this and get a better new law, but only if we know exactly what we want in a clear lucid strategy built by survey and consensus, and make alliance with Disability Rights UK, Mind Legal Unit, Pro Bono, and Public Health lawyers.
I do not want any of us to suffer reduced or cut off benefits, or become destitute and suicide, I want us to get our right under the HRA, ECHR, UN disable people charter etc.
Take good care of yourselves and I shall endeavour to do the same.
Will someone pass tis on to SCOPES campaigns Dept please, and confirm this request?
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Your faith gives you strength that others may lack. You make some compelling points but none of us are experts on the machinations of the government and the nasty agenda of parts of the media, therefore it is impossible to have answers for all worries. Being fallible humans we all handle problems differently, I know I am not even consistent from one day to the next with my emotional reactions! We need to be kind to ourselves as well as others. Blessed be.
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My faith of Buddhism has helped me greatly, but there are no panacaeas. I still suffer, from trauma, but it is less than 24 years ago, and saved my life as Buddha said suicide is a waste of this precious human life, and the potential for total compassion and wisdom that is nirvana. Also my approach is peace and love, compassion for all, I do not like squabbles when we can all work together by listening more, getting to know each other, seeing the best in ourselves, and others, finding creative conflict, and creative solutions in shaping Getting Britain Working.
A Buddhist cannot **** off others, or beat themselves up, is humble and openhearted, will never take offence even if if feels offensive, they will act with love, towards others. They will try to not give offence. Buddhists do engage in politics for better human rights, but if they do this angrily or bitterly they have missed the point of human rights advocacy: world peace, say Tzenzin Gytso, the 13th Dalai Lama. He had to flee Tibet in 1959 in fear of assassination by the Chinese, and like Mandela took no offence, or retaliation, only seeing the best in 'enemies' who ae human too,, forgiving, but never excusing oppression, and speaking with inspiration, gentleness, tenderness, truth and compassion for all. Why? because we all suffer and deserve not to, with more insight and compassion. Kindness is king, Compassion is not fashion, it is needed now more than ever given the state of our planet, abuse of human rights, oppressions, wars, and environmental destruction.
Be kind. Be happy. Be joyful. I am.
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Everyday is torture i spent days in bed sleeping tablets waking up going to sleep im just getting older worn out i feel empty but full of pain i find no peace in this life world this world wasnt structured for my brain everyday something diffrent comes out
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