Does a nurse have to be registered?

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  • clarkjohnson
    clarkjohnson Community member Posts: 210 Empowering
    Least I'm honest it's a good old fashioned human touch which I admire 
  • cristobal
    cristobal Community member Posts: 984 Championing
    ilovecats said:
    Gerald said:
    Good  to know ilovecats  if they do not like to record it and then write down something different to what the claimant says then it makes a difference. and my PIP assessor did that and now its my word against is and i asked about recording it and got we do not do that and you can not do it yourself as i was going to give them a copy at the same time this as to be recorded this as to come in as part of the assessment not you have to ask them is it okay just do it .
    For future reference, you can request to record the assessment with at least 3 days notice. The PIP assessor doesn't have to accept it so you should be able to ask for someone who will (not 100% sure about this).

    You have to use either two tape or CD recorders at the same time, and have to provide two unopened / sealed tapes or CD's that the assessor can see has not been tampered with. 

    You cannot record on any smart phone or fancy technological device.

    Just be aware, that even if you record your assessment, unless you pay to have the tapes transcribed, which I believe is quite expensive, a tribunal is unlikely to sit and actually listen although it is more likely that any MR done prior is probably going to be more successful.  

    Knowledge on recording isn't my forte so if anyone knows more feel free to add.

     [The usual disclaimers - I don’t work for Capita or Atos or the DWP or the Tories - I do claim PIP - I have had an almighty fight with Capita - I haven’t had any problem with DWP who have always been polite and reasonable]

    In my previous employment i had some experience of tape-recording (as it was then!)

    I recorded my assessment with the consent of Capita.I was amazed at the assessors report that resulted - lots of lies/ mistakes/ made-up bits because the assessor forgot to ask/ poor interview technique. These wouldn’t have been corrected without a recording.

    I was also surprised at the number of times when I looked at one part of the report, said to myself “I never said that” and yet when i checked the recording I found that I had!

    The major positive as far as I see it is not for individual cases but the ability for a supervisor to dip-sample cases for training/ developmental purposes. In my case the assessor clearly need extra training….

    The major downside is the minute that all interviews are taped you will find that the interviews change in style. Assessors will ask lots more questions to get the same information.They will rely on a transcript instead of their own notes. The process will take a lot longer and waiting times will increase massively…

  • Gerald
    Gerald Community member Posts: 213 Empowering
    ilovecats said:
    Gerald said:
    Good  to know ilovecats  if they do not like to record it and then write down something different to what the claimant says then it makes a difference. and my PIP assessor did that and now its my word against is and i asked about recording it and got we do not do that and you can not do it yourself as i was going to give them a copy at the same time this as to be recorded this as to come in as part of the assessment not you have to ask them is it okay just do it .
    For future reference, you can request to record the assessment with at least 3 days notice. The PIP assessor doesn't have to accept it so you should be able to ask for someone who will (not 100% sure about this).

    You have to use either two tape or CD recorders at the same time, and have to provide two unopened / sealed tapes or CD's that the assessor can see has not been tampered with. 

    You cannot record on any smart phone or fancy technological device.

    Just be aware, that even if you record your assessment, unless you pay to have the tapes transcribed, which I believe is quite expensive, a tribunal is unlikely to sit and actually listen although it is more likely that any MR done prior is probably going to be more successful.  

    Knowledge on recording isn't my forte so if anyone knows more feel free to add.
    Hi ilovecats  I did more that 3 days in advance and got i know to my request to record the assessment with at least 3 days notice. The PIP assessor doesn't have to accept it so you should be able to ask for someone who will point in fact the pip assessor asked me about manage medication to which i tell him that with my rheumatoid arthritis i can not get my medication out of the foil pack so my Sister or Nephew come  round and put them i a large pill box for me then on is report the PIP assessor put asked about manage medication and the claimant says he as know problems with is  medication and can get them out of the foil pack with know problems and now with no recording it my word against is how is that fair recording the assessment as to be part of the assessment right it know if buts or maybe and if the PIP assessor doesn't  like it do a diffrent job then .
  • Gerald
    Gerald Community member Posts: 213 Empowering
    edited February 2019
    ilovecats said:
    Gerald said:
    ilovecats said:
    Gerald said:
    Good  to know ilovecats  if they do not like to record it and then write down something different to what the claimant says then it makes a difference. and my PIP assessor did that and now its my word against is and i asked about recording it and got we do not do that and you can not do it yourself as i was going to give them a copy at the same time this as to be recorded this as to come in as part of the assessment not you have to ask them is it okay just do it .
    For future reference, you can request to record the assessment with at least 3 days notice. The PIP assessor doesn't have to accept it so you should be able to ask for someone who will (not 100% sure about this).

    You have to use either two tape or CD recorders at the same time, and have to provide two unopened / sealed tapes or CD's that the assessor can see has not been tampered with. 

    You cannot record on any smart phone or fancy technological device.

    Just be aware, that even if you record your assessment, unless you pay to have the tapes transcribed, which I believe is quite expensive, a tribunal is unlikely to sit and actually listen although it is more likely that any MR done prior is probably going to be more successful.  

    Knowledge on recording isn't my forte so if anyone knows more feel free to add.
    Hi ilovecats  I did more that 3 days in advance and got i know to my request to record the assessment with at least 3 days notice. The PIP assessor doesn't have to accept it so you should be able to ask for someone who will point in fact the pip assessor asked me about manage medication to which i tell him that with my rheumatoid arthritis i can not get my medication out of the foil pack so my Sister or Nephew come  round and put them i a large pill box for me then on is report the PIP assessor put asked about manage medication and the claimant says he as know problems with is  medication and can get them out of the foil pack with know problems and now with no recording it my word against is how is that fair recording the assessment as to be part of the assessment right it know if buts or maybe and if the PIP assessor doesn't  like it do a diffrent job then .
    I'm sorry you had a bad experience. Just to clarify, I have no issues with recording assessments. If they asked to, I would let the claimant sit in a way that meant they could see the screen and what I was writing down. 

    I'd like people to realise though, that even if the assessment is recorded, and even if the assessor writes what you said verbatim on the report, they can still go against (either higher or lower than) what you are claiming. There is a wide variety of evidence available other than the functional history obtained in the assessment. 

    I'll use your example to try and explain:
    (not because I don't believe you cannot remove tablets or deserve to be awarded)

    Claim:
    - has arthritis and cannot get tablets out of packaging
    Evidence for:
    - GP letter stated diagnosis of arthritis and is taking naproxen and paracetamol
    Evidence against:  
    - no evidence of rheumatology input
    - low levels of pain medication
    - no specialist medication e.g. methotrexate 
    - was able to perform the dexterity tests without problem
    - pinch grip was normal during physical examination
    - no evidence of swelling or redness in finger joints
    - was witnessed undo the buttons on their coat
    - was witnessed to unscrew the cap on the water bottle
    This person would be awarded 3A.

    Another opposite example would be:
    Claim:
    - has COPD, states no restriction when going to the toilet
    Evidence for:
    - nothing in PIP2, functional history indicates he uses the radiator to stand up from the toilet
    Evidence showing additional restriction:  
    - takes 4 different inhalers and anti mucus medication
    - uses home oxygen on bad days
    - sees COPD nurse every 3 months
    - letter from respiratory consultant stated O2 levels run at 85% on air
    - was witnessed to be breathless and used inhalers during assessment
    - was witnessed to push down on the arms of the chair to stand up
    This person would be awarded 5B

    That's how PIP works. We cannot just take people at their word, it has to be evidenced in many ways.

    Now I know what I have written will infuriate a lot of people, and it seems like assessors are out to catch you out, and to an extent that I suppose it is true but there has to be a line somewhere otherwise every single person with any diagnosis would claim and the pot of money isn't infinite.

    Please don't all lynch me. 

    Okay ilovecats That's how PIP works. We cannot just take people at their word, it has to be evidenced in many ways. and that is in my list of medication with the claim form and in my doctors report and medication i take and the problems with my rheumatoid arthritis and for the medication the rest of my problems so how much evidenced do you need and if your PIP assessor do not look at it in the first place and just put down what they think on that day how can you win with that and you put this  otherwise every single person with any diagnosis would claim and the pot of money isn't infinite. do you think that i like being like this and living  with disabilitys and disabled i will swap my day to day life with my PIP assessor now and then have is job and do is assessment doing the same thing to him as he as done to me and see how he likes it and knowing there is come back on me.
  • wildlife
    wildlife Community member Posts: 1,289 Trailblazing
    edited February 2019
    @ilovecats And what of the assessors who make up their own reasons why a person can do what they say they need help with. Again the help they need is evidenced by a diagnosis which would make it difficult to use their hands. But if the assessment process is designed to ignore the diagnosis what else can a claimant do. This is why assessors (not all but I believe many) manipulate their own observations and information given be the claimant. The stakes are higher for doing that and the repercussions of being found out are extremely low. I know because my complaint first made in January 2017 has been turned down by ATOS, DWP, HCPC, ICO and ICE. My only option now is the Parliamentary Ombudsman. It takes a great deal of determination to keep fighting but I fully intend to. Not just for my sake but for all those who can't fight for themselves. I note you didn't reply to my previous question about my MSO results. So here's another. I note mentioned above that a water bottle is opened by unscrewing the top. During my MSE I was asked to do a 2 armed exercise and as I was holding a bottle of water I briefly put it between my knees and held it there. That's all I did !!!! My assessor wrote in her report. "She was seen to peel off the plastic label of a water bottle using her left and right hand whilst holding it between her knees." (the label round the middle). I have written, told and even screamed down the phone at a DWP DM that this didn't happen but no-one will accept my word. My hubby was sat by my side and had opened the bottle for me in the waiting room. So that's 2 people called liars. You have no idea the anger i feel that she has got away with this bear faced lie that is not even how you open a bottle. She claimed I had no cognitive impairment so the 2 things are inconsistent. other things were made up which conflicted with my evidence. She also wrote "she feels she" before lots of my symptoms and even diagnosed conditions. This is an attempt to persuade the CM at DWP that a claimant only "feels" their disability. That it doesn't actually exist. May i suggest rather than telling us how you used to work or how it's supposed to work, how about giving advice as to how we can get something done about the lies, knowing what you do about the other side.  
  • cristobal
    cristobal Community member Posts: 984 Championing
    @ilovecats...when the assessor uses the phrase "she feels that x" I'm assuming that this is just to distinguish between what the assessor says, and what the claimant says. 

    Is this the case? Unfortunately this could across as quite dismissive, if you take it that way....
  • cristobal
    cristobal Community member Posts: 984 Championing

    @wildlife - I hope that this might help, possibly more so if you have to go for another assessment rather than correcting what’s happened.

    I had my assessment at home and I recorded it. I qualified for PIP - just - but the report bore no relation to the interview. I believe now, after reading some of the posts on here, that it was a combination of the assessor being new, and not a good interviewer. Some answers were (@ilovecats might not like this) just made up.I didn’t help because i was having a bad day so I spent an age thinking about my answers and it wound her up.

    The problem with me wasn’t the assessor but with the assessment provider.

    I wrote and asked them to correct all of the errors - they replied that they had spoken to the assessor, she couldn’t remember and the complaint was closed.

    They lost my next letter which was sent recorded and signed for.

    I wrote again asking them to listen to the recording. I didn’t hear anything so i rang up a couple of times, and got fobbed off.

    Eventually I asked my MP to write. They replied assuring him that the assessment was ‘clinically sound’  - but when I requested a copy of the report I found that only three of the categories were unchanged, and I had gone from standard rate to higher rate!

    My advice, and I know for a fact that others will disagree, is to record the interview. This won’t solve everything but it will at least mean that you can challenge any factual things that are wrong. In my case, for example, the assessor had recorded “Yes’ to some questions when I had actually said “No”.

    Dual-tape recorders are expensive (and you run the risk of an assessor saying “If you can carry all of that recording gear there can’t be much wrong!”)

    If I had another assessment at the providers office I think I’d buy two dictaphones cheap on Ebay, and use them both simultaneously….

    Good luck. I understand what it's like to feel like you're banging your head against a wall and it's not nice....

  • clarkjohnson
    clarkjohnson Community member Posts: 210 Empowering
    Well after reading the word s of wildlife and Cristobal it's made me feel very sad how they were treated 
  • Richard_Scope
    Richard_Scope Posts: 3,646 Cerebral Palsy Network
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