Does a nurse have to be registered?
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Least I'm honest it's a good old fashioned human touch which I admire0
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ilovecats said:Gerald said:
You have to use either two tape or CD recorders at the same time, and have to provide two unopened / sealed tapes or CD's that the assessor can see has not been tampered with.
You cannot record on any smart phone or fancy technological device.
Just be aware, that even if you record your assessment, unless you pay to have the tapes transcribed, which I believe is quite expensive, a tribunal is unlikely to sit and actually listen although it is more likely that any MR done prior is probably going to be more successful.
Knowledge on recording isn't my forte so if anyone knows more feel free to add.
[The usual disclaimers - I don’t work for Capita or Atos or the DWP or the Tories - I do claim PIP - I have had an almighty fight with Capita - I haven’t had any problem with DWP who have always been polite and reasonable]In my previous employment i had some experience of tape-recording (as it was then!)
I recorded my assessment with the consent of Capita.I was amazed at the assessors report that resulted - lots of lies/ mistakes/ made-up bits because the assessor forgot to ask/ poor interview technique. These wouldn’t have been corrected without a recording.
I was also surprised at the number of times when I looked at one part of the report, said to myself “I never said that” and yet when i checked the recording I found that I had!
The major positive as far as I see it is not for individual cases but the ability for a supervisor to dip-sample cases for training/ developmental purposes. In my case the assessor clearly need extra training….
The major downside is the minute that all interviews are taped you will find that the interviews change in style. Assessors will ask lots more questions to get the same information.They will rely on a transcript instead of their own notes. The process will take a lot longer and waiting times will increase massively…
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ilovecats said:Gerald said:
You have to use either two tape or CD recorders at the same time, and have to provide two unopened / sealed tapes or CD's that the assessor can see has not been tampered with.
You cannot record on any smart phone or fancy technological device.
Just be aware, that even if you record your assessment, unless you pay to have the tapes transcribed, which I believe is quite expensive, a tribunal is unlikely to sit and actually listen although it is more likely that any MR done prior is probably going to be more successful.
Knowledge on recording isn't my forte so if anyone knows more feel free to add.
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ilovecats said:Gerald said:ilovecats said:Gerald said:
You have to use either two tape or CD recorders at the same time, and have to provide two unopened / sealed tapes or CD's that the assessor can see has not been tampered with.
You cannot record on any smart phone or fancy technological device.
Just be aware, that even if you record your assessment, unless you pay to have the tapes transcribed, which I believe is quite expensive, a tribunal is unlikely to sit and actually listen although it is more likely that any MR done prior is probably going to be more successful.
Knowledge on recording isn't my forte so if anyone knows more feel free to add.
I'd like people to realise though, that even if the assessment is recorded, and even if the assessor writes what you said verbatim on the report, they can still go against (either higher or lower than) what you are claiming. There is a wide variety of evidence available other than the functional history obtained in the assessment.
I'll use your example to try and explain:
(not because I don't believe you cannot remove tablets or deserve to be awarded)
Claim:
- has arthritis and cannot get tablets out of packaging
Evidence for:
- GP letter stated diagnosis of arthritis and is taking naproxen and paracetamol
Evidence against:
- no evidence of rheumatology input
- low levels of pain medication
- no specialist medication e.g. methotrexate
- was able to perform the dexterity tests without problem
- pinch grip was normal during physical examination
- no evidence of swelling or redness in finger joints
- was witnessed undo the buttons on their coat
- was witnessed to unscrew the cap on the water bottle
This person would be awarded 3A.
Another opposite example would be:
Claim:
- has COPD, states no restriction when going to the toilet
Evidence for:
- nothing in PIP2, functional history indicates he uses the radiator to stand up from the toilet
Evidence showing additional restriction:
- takes 4 different inhalers and anti mucus medication
- uses home oxygen on bad days
- sees COPD nurse every 3 months
- letter from respiratory consultant stated O2 levels run at 85% on air
- was witnessed to be breathless and used inhalers during assessment
- was witnessed to push down on the arms of the chair to stand up
This person would be awarded 5B
That's how PIP works. We cannot just take people at their word, it has to be evidenced in many ways.
Now I know what I have written will infuriate a lot of people, and it seems like assessors are out to catch you out, and to an extent that I suppose it is true but there has to be a line somewhere otherwise every single person with any diagnosis would claim and the pot of money isn't infinite.
Please don't all lynch me.
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@ilovecats And what of the assessors who make up their own reasons why a person can do what they say they need help with. Again the help they need is evidenced by a diagnosis which would make it difficult to use their hands. But if the assessment process is designed to ignore the diagnosis what else can a claimant do. This is why assessors (not all but I believe many) manipulate their own observations and information given be the claimant. The stakes are higher for doing that and the repercussions of being found out are extremely low. I know because my complaint first made in January 2017 has been turned down by ATOS, DWP, HCPC, ICO and ICE. My only option now is the Parliamentary Ombudsman. It takes a great deal of determination to keep fighting but I fully intend to. Not just for my sake but for all those who can't fight for themselves. I note you didn't reply to my previous question about my MSO results. So here's another. I note mentioned above that a water bottle is opened by unscrewing the top. During my MSE I was asked to do a 2 armed exercise and as I was holding a bottle of water I briefly put it between my knees and held it there. That's all I did !!!! My assessor wrote in her report. "She was seen to peel off the plastic label of a water bottle using her left and right hand whilst holding it between her knees." (the label round the middle). I have written, told and even screamed down the phone at a DWP DM that this didn't happen but no-one will accept my word. My hubby was sat by my side and had opened the bottle for me in the waiting room. So that's 2 people called liars. You have no idea the anger i feel that she has got away with this bear faced lie that is not even how you open a bottle. She claimed I had no cognitive impairment so the 2 things are inconsistent. other things were made up which conflicted with my evidence. She also wrote "she feels she" before lots of my symptoms and even diagnosed conditions. This is an attempt to persuade the CM at DWP that a claimant only "feels" their disability. That it doesn't actually exist. May i suggest rather than telling us how you used to work or how it's supposed to work, how about giving advice as to how we can get something done about the lies, knowing what you do about the other side.0
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@ilovecats...when the assessor uses the phrase "she feels that x" I'm assuming that this is just to distinguish between what the assessor says, and what the claimant says.
Is this the case? Unfortunately this could across as quite dismissive, if you take it that way....
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@wildlife - I hope that this might help, possibly more so if you have to go for another assessment rather than correcting what’s happened.
I had my assessment at home and I recorded it. I qualified for PIP - just - but the report bore no relation to the interview. I believe now, after reading some of the posts on here, that it was a combination of the assessor being new, and not a good interviewer. Some answers were (@ilovecats might not like this) just made up.I didn’t help because i was having a bad day so I spent an age thinking about my answers and it wound her up.
The problem with me wasn’t the assessor but with the assessment provider.
I wrote and asked them to correct all of the errors - they replied that they had spoken to the assessor, she couldn’t remember and the complaint was closed.
They lost my next letter which was sent recorded and signed for.
I wrote again asking them to listen to the recording. I didn’t hear anything so i rang up a couple of times, and got fobbed off.
Eventually I asked my MP to write. They replied assuring him that the assessment was ‘clinically sound’ - but when I requested a copy of the report I found that only three of the categories were unchanged, and I had gone from standard rate to higher rate!
My advice, and I know for a fact that others will disagree, is to record the interview. This won’t solve everything but it will at least mean that you can challenge any factual things that are wrong. In my case, for example, the assessor had recorded “Yes’ to some questions when I had actually said “No”.
Dual-tape recorders are expensive (and you run the risk of an assessor saying “If you can carry all of that recording gear there can’t be much wrong!”)
If I had another assessment at the providers office I think I’d buy two dictaphones cheap on Ebay, and use them both simultaneously….
Good luck. I understand what it's like to feel like you're banging your head against a wall and it's not nice....
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Well after reading the word s of wildlife and Cristobal it's made me feel very sad how they were treated0
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