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Does a nurse have to be registered?

pamela1962pamela1962 Member Posts: 32 Connected
edited February 2019 in PIP, DLA and AA
Good afternoon everyone
I recently had a assessment for PIP and the nurse told me she was an A&E nurse. It turns out that she is not registered, as I have checked with the nurses council . 
Do they have to be registered to carry out assessments? 
Thank you
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Replies

  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 968 Disability Gamechanger
    I'm fairly confident that nurses only have to be registered in order to practice, not to do administrative work...

    It may be that when she said that she 'was' an A&E nurse that is correct - she used to be one but isn't now!
  • pamela1962pamela1962 Member Posts: 32 Connected
    But they still examine you so I would have thought they should be registered. 
    But you are probably right that they don't have to be.
  • Antonia_AlumniAntonia_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 1,781 Pioneering
    Welcome to the community @Pamela1962

    Thank you for sharing this with us. I believe so, but I may be wrong. Some of our members may be able to help you with this.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 968 Disability Gamechanger
    @pamela1962 .....I've just found this in the DWP guidelines.....

    HCPs must "be fully registered with the relevant licensing body (doctors must have a licence to practise)"


  • pamela1962pamela1962 Member Posts: 32 Connected
    Hi thank you that's great 
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    If you read about the case of the Tattooist who was doing body modifications, he is up in court at the moment partly because he is not registered with the GMC and has no medical qualifications. So the law thinks people should be registered, but not the DWP, they are quiet happy to use reports from people who are unqualified in most if not all medical matters.

    Put the DWP in the dock with the Tattooist Brendan McCarthy I say.  
  • pamela1962pamela1962 Member Posts: 32 Connected
    I used the correct name in the search and also checked with the NMC . The name of the nurse was on the back of the report..... There was no error. Therefore I disagree with you.
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    ilovecats said:

    The DWP used fully qualified and registered assessors. If the OP cannot find the nurse on the register it is likely because he isn't searching the correct name.

    You say that but we don't know that for sure. The one thing I do know for sure is, he HCP report I got had no name on it, I think one of the reasons for that is, the HCP is not registered with the GMC or nurses council, she is a physiotherapist. Now what qualifications does a physio have to assess medical conditions? none whatsoever!

    So don't tell me the DWP uses "fully qualified" medical staff, if anything they use the least medically qualified staff and in my case a physio with no medical qualifications at all.
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    So a physio is more qualified than my GP, is that what you are saying?
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    It is nice to speak to someone on the other side of the fence. Ok, last question, is a physio qualified to assess mental health?
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    It worries me that you think GP's are rehashing what a patient thinks the symptoms are, when that is not how the system works at all. When a patient sees a GP for x y z problems, the GP prescribes various medications for those conditions. When there is no improvement, the patient is referred to a specialist. The specialist will confirm if said condition exists and prescribes medication more suitable for that condition, the specialist will also tell the patient whether the condition can be cured or not, usually not.

    Then along comes someone to assess you who believes your GP is simply repeating what you told your GP, the assessor ignores the mountain of medical letters you sent in, or does not see them as they are often removed from the ESA50, and you are left scratching your head wondering why you got 0 points.
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    That is the new fangled way of looking at it, if I used the same criteria that you use, I could walk into any hospital and declare 90% of the patients fit for work. 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    When i recently filled in a PIP review form for my daughter on the front of the form it had 2 lists of what to send and what not to send... on the list of what they didn't want to see was a letter from a GP as evidence. Why? well a letter from a GP is mostly patient lead because a GP spends very limited amount of time with a patient and doesn't know enough of how their conditions affect them against the PIP descriptors. A GP will only know what you tell them, which means it's patient lead.

    The only information a GP can give is what medication they take, a diagnosis if any and any appointments they've recently had. So, i agree with ilovecats.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    My GP has known me for many years, hardly what I would call a limited amount of time. I also pointed out it is not just your GP's opinion that counts. If my GP was to write a letter on my behalf, it certainly wouldn't contain my personal opinion, what would be the point of that? When I ask for a letter from my GP, I expect it to contain information about diagnosis made in reference to my health conditions. 







  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited February 2019
    My GP has known me for many years, hardly what I would call a limited amount of time. I also pointed out it is not just your GP's opinion that counts. If my GP was to write a letter on my behalf, it certainly wouldn't contain my personal opinion, what would be the point of that? When I ask for a letter from my GP, I expect it to contain information about diagnosis made in reference to my health conditions. 


    OK put it another way to turn the tables round. If you took along a print out of all of the PIP descriptors together with the guidance manual as to what each descriptors means and handed it to your GP do you seriously suggest that he/she would not only know about you to that extent that they could identify which descriptor applies, explaining why it does, giving a couple of examples of what happened in your life and then producing evidence to back up those answers without having to ask you any questions? I doubt it. Does my GP know that I used to fall off the toilet when cleaning myself, does he know how far I can walk reliably, does he know how I manage to dress and undress myself, does he know what happens when I try to get out of the bath without me having to tell him any of the answers beforehand?
    I doubt it. He doesn't see me except at the surgery maybe 3/4 times a year so would have no idea about how my life is impacted UNLESS I tell him.
    Than that becomes 3rd hand information - my patient says...…...not worth the paper it is written on as it is not based on something that he has seen evidence of it happening first hand.

    Finally having a diagnosis means nothing to anybody - in fact you can get a PIP award and have no diagnosis.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 968 Disability Gamechanger
    @Benistmonk -I wonder if you might be missing the point here? I think that most people, and this probably includes HCPs assessing PIP, will accept a diagnosis that GPs make. But that's not what PIP is about - it's about what impact a condition has on you.GPs are exactly that - general practitioners. They know a little bit about lots of things.

    I didn't put anything from my GP when I started my claim..... for the very reason the @poppy123456 has just said which is he would be telling you what i'd just told him.

    More useful - in my case and I suggest in most cases- was a report from a specialist Occupational Health consultant. he made no diagnosis - he accepted the word of other clinicians - but he did explain exactly why I could no longer carry out certain functions and, consequently, why I could not continue in employment. 

    Interestingly his report has very little mention of "He told me this" because it is based almost exclusively on his own examination and opinion.....
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    Yadnad said:

    OK put it another way to turn the tables round. If you took along a print out of all of the PIP descriptors together with the guidance manual as to what each descriptors means and handed it to your GP do you seriously suggest that he/she would not only know about you to that extent that they could identify which descriptor applies, explaining why it does, giving a couple of examples of what happened in your life and then producing evidence to back up those answers without having to ask you any questions? I doubt it. Does my GP know that I used to fall off the toilet when cleaning myself, does he know how far I can walk reliably, does he know how I manage to dress and undress myself, does he know what happens when I try to get out of the bath without me having to tell him any of the answers beforehand?
    I doubt it. He doesn't see me except at the surgery maybe 3/4 times a year.



    Lets put it another way, don't be silly, GP's have real jobs, they are not lackys for the DWP.
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    ilovecats said:

    I believe you just keep missing the point. I have explained everything clearly and fear that no matter what anyone says you will stick to your point of view.



    Correct, now do I qualify?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    ilovecats said:



    Correct, now do I qualify?
    Based on a report from a GP, no.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    I think this thread has been very informative, so if hijacking is what it takes to get the correct info, then long may it continue. :)
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 968 Disability Gamechanger
    Can we get back to the original thread please.

    @ilovecats I can't find any trace of you on any of the professional registers.

    Is it the usual spelling of "lovecats" or have you changed it slightly??

    Or are you not registered at all?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    I didn't even put a GP contact name on my daughters first PIP claim or the review form. Why not? because her GP doesn't have a clue how her conditions affect her.

    He doesn't know that she needs support for cooking, bathing, dressing/undressing, budgeting decisions, reading and understanding signs and symbols,  engaging with others and following and planning a journey. The only thing he could tell them is that she has a diagnosis of ASD, learning disability and social anxiety disorder, none of which is very helpful at all in telling a HCP or DWP how her conditions affect her.

    Detailed assessment reports from the Community Mental Health and a learning disability team have been sent to support her claim.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    That question has been answered in the first couple of posts, there is nothing more to say on the subject. Just in case anyone has forgot, the answer is yes, nurses must be registered to assess you.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    ilovecats said:
    Apologies for hijacking this thread!
    No need to apologies for giving great factual advice. :)
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,355 Disability Gamechanger
    @ilovecats, what a lot of sense you have been posting honest and to the point. The truth hurts some times and as others have said GPs are just that not specialists in any one field of medicine hence why we are refered to hospitals to see consultants for in depth testing, scans ect. As a MS sufferer my GP said he didn’t know much about my condition but I was in the care of a specialist MS nurse and a neurologist and Neuro, physo who knew what I had before being given my official diagnosis by the symptoms I was presenting to her. So sending doctors letter is a waste of time get the big gun involved, the consultant, your physo, the OH and those who can bring credibility to your conditions and functionality. Hope we see a lot more of you posting Ilovecats, in the coming months.
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    Yes, get the whole lot involved because the DWP thinks GP letters only contain patients opinions. Then wait for a tribunal to decide because the DWP can't be bothered to read specialists letters.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 968 Disability Gamechanger
    @Benistmonk ...you're not really going to change your mind are you?
  • djbantiquesdjbantiques Member Posts: 43 Connected
    So your GPs opinion counts very little because they don't see you enough to know how your conditions affect you but the assessors opinion is 100% correct on what you can and can not do based on a 30 -60 minute interview.
  • clarkjohnsonclarkjohnson Member Posts: 210 Pioneering
    Dr says hello how can I help you . Patient says it doesn't matter they wont believe you anyway 😂
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    It's clear that we are going round in circles here and i don't have the energy to continue this discussion any further, i'm out.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • clarkjohnsonclarkjohnson Member Posts: 210 Pioneering
    Yes it's like the mad hatters tea party 
  • frecklesfreckles Member Posts: 258 Pioneering
    I would like to say the whole pip form needs updating half of it for me is based on cooking toilet needs can you get in and out of the bath or shower unaided or using a microwave yes i understand those questions are correct but what about other needs like autism and serious lung diseases one of the questions is can you walk more than 50 metres unaided well my answer is i dont carry a measuring tape out with me but no i car,nt because i get out of breath i even showed the assessor my clubbed finger nails she put in report that my fingernails were clean so obviously has,nt got a clue about idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis which is a deadly illness and as for gp letters who else no,s your health better than a G.P or consultant so to the person who use to be a H.C.P i,d say yeah 90% of assesors are clueless who don,t care as long as they bow down and get there bonuses off the corrupt DWP
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Sorry but I must post this before I go to bed.
    The descriptors were chosen to represent what the majority of disabled people have problems with. They were as a result of a whole host of recognised agencies and charities that specifically work with the disabled. So you are right and everybody else is wrong!
    I will also take you up on one more point. Pulmonary Fibrosis is not a deadly disease. I have had it along with Asthma for a few years now. No one including my GP has said that I am going to die from it. Yes it is something you have to live with but taking the right medication you should live for a normal life span.
    Yes you get out of breath, but you are not going to keel over any time soon. In fact I didn't even mention either of those on my PIP2 forms as they are not important in the grand scheme of things. 
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    So your GPs opinion counts very little because they don't see you enough to know how your conditions affect you but the assessors opinion is 100% correct on what you can and can not do based on a 30 -60 minute interview.

    Assessors know it all, they can tell if you are fit for work by looking at descriptors. It takes up to 16 years to become a GP, and 3 to 4 years to become a nurse. Is it any wonder why people like me think the whole system is corrupt, nurses who think they know more than GP's, you couldn't make it up. 
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    edited February 2019
    freckles said:
    I would like to say the whole pip form needs updating half of it for me is based on cooking toilet needs can you get in and out of the bath or shower unaided or using a microwave yes i understand those questions are correct but what about other needs like autism and serious lung diseases one of the questions is can you walk more than 50 metres unaided well my answer is i dont carry a measuring tape out with me but no i car,nt because i get out of breath i even showed the assessor my clubbed finger nails she put in report that my fingernails were clean so obviously has,nt got a clue about idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis which is a deadly illness and as for gp letters who else no,s your health better than a G.P or consultant so to the person who use to be a H.C.P i,d say yeah 90% of assesors are clueless who don,t care as long as they bow down and get there bonuses off the corrupt DWP

    Well said Freckles, I couldn't agree more. Now you see what we are up against, nurses who have the cheek to belittle GP's who are eminently more qualified that they will ever be. Actually I will leave that last comment out, it might not fit in with the descriptors.

  • user1234user1234 Member Posts: 2 Listener
    yadnad - Pulmonary Fibrosis is considered a fatal disease so hows it not deadly?
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 968 Disability Gamechanger
    @benistmonk and @freckles -  you seem to be having difficulty with this so I'll summarise:

    No-one is belittling GPs. 

    They are highly trained

    They are not trained in how conditions which they diagnose (because they are highly trained!) impact on a patients day to day life

    The evidence that they submit a lot of the time (but not all the time) is of limited value because it relates to a diagnosis, not a patient's consequent loss of functionality (which, for PIP purposes, is the important bit)


  • frecklesfreckles Member Posts: 258 Pioneering
    That sounds very patronising!!!!!! please explain to me what functional ability means in full as i must be clueless
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    What's patronising about it? Your functional ability means your ability to preform daily activities such as, washing, dressing, cooking, managing toilet needs, communicating etc.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    So your GPs opinion counts very little because they don't see you enough to know how your conditions affect you but the assessors opinion is 100% correct on what you can and can not do based on a 30 -60 minute interview.

    What has medical training to be a GP got to do with assessing someone against set criteria as to whether they are able to do some work or are disabled enough to qualify for PIP?
    GP's have an opinion and that is why they issue a sick note, but they are not in a position to test that opinion against the descriptors that make up ESA and PIP.

  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    user1234 said:
    yadnad - Pulmonary Fibrosis is considered a fatal disease so hows it not deadly?
    First of all you have to identify the type of disease (PF covers a whole host of conditions). Not all are serious conditions that can lead to an early death.
    It's like saying that you have cancer without identifying the particular type of cancer it is.

    PF by itself is not a life threatening condition - the type of condition you have within that general diagnosis may well be life limiting (rare) to just a mild irritation that you can live with.
  • clarkjohnsonclarkjohnson Member Posts: 210 Pioneering
    You talk about scoring points like its a football match I no what it's like to go to work I've been doing it for over 40 years in all situations and conditions rain and shine and all hours . Then when I became ill I got some jumped up person who saw me for 20 minutes typed a few things and said I could to some sort of work . Some people on here are very good at shoving technical stuff down our throats in fact they could get a job working for nasa but when it comes to pure raw human feelings and emotions and care for others well being I score them a big fat zero . I've never heard such a load of hogwash perhaps we should get rid of doctors and next time we are ill just phone the Dwp for an appointment and see someone we've never met 
  • frecklesfreckles Member Posts: 258 Pioneering
    No i said the DWP are corrupt and 90%of assessors are clueless when you have ipf and your seeing your consultant and he says my finger nails are clubbed and that is a bad sign then yes i would expect an assesor to no that as well as how can they assess people with disabilities when they are not even qualified in that area a nurse whos qualified in physiotherepy is not going to no about IPF or MENTAL ILLNESS its like having a chef repairing a car
  • clarkjohnsonclarkjohnson Member Posts: 210 Pioneering
    Well said freckles nice to meet you 
  • frecklesfreckles Member Posts: 258 Pioneering
    Nice to meet you two
  • clarkjohnsonclarkjohnson Member Posts: 210 Pioneering
    Hello love cats hope your well I see you were an assessor at some time I saw a young lady at my assessment . Could I ask you what training you had and understanding of the issues of a 63 year old man suffering with penile cancer please thank you . 
  • GeraldGerald Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    wilko said:
    @ilovecats, what a lot of sense you have been posting honest and to the point. The truth hurts some times and as others have said GPs are just that not specialists in any one field of medicine hence why we are refered to hospitals to see consultants for in depth testing, scans ect. As a MS sufferer my GP said he didn’t know much about my condition but I was in the care of a specialist MS nurse and a neurologist and Neuro, physo who knew what I had before being given my official diagnosis by the symptoms I was presenting to her. So sending doctors letter is a waste of time get the big gun involved, the consultant, your physo, the OH and those who can bring credibility to your conditions and functionality. Hope we see a lot more of you posting Ilovecats, in the coming months.
    Hi okay then you put this down GPs are just that not specialists in any one field of medicine hence why we are refered to hospitals to see consultants for in depth report then you tell me how then can preson doing the assessment can come up with there point of view and not read the medical report a think that they are right and the Doctors and Consuitants report are wrong as this has happened to me so who is right the person doing the assessment or a Doctor and Consuitants i know whos word i think is right so answer that one 
  • clarkjohnsonclarkjohnson Member Posts: 210 Pioneering
    Hello Gerald I'm still waiting for my answer from love cats as she said she's here to help and give us informative information. Hope your well 👍
  • GeraldGerald Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    edited February 2019
    Hello Gerald I'm still waiting for my answer from love cats as she said she's here to help and give us informative information. Hope your well 👍
    Hello clarkjohnson I get the felling that if you put a point of view down that helps someone with a disability and not the PIP assessment with there point of view and not read the medical report and think that they are right and the Doctors and Consuitants report are not so is there a point or no point sending in this evidence you tell me.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    freckles said:
    No i said the DWP are corrupt and 90%of assessors are clueless when you have ipf and your seeing your consultant and he says my finger nails are clubbed and that is a bad sign then yes i would expect an assesor to no that as well as how can they assess people with disabilities when they are not even qualified in that area a nurse whos qualified in physiotherepy is not going to no about IPF or MENTAL ILLNESS its like having a chef repairing a car
    For someone to screen for mental health issues, the majority of the assessment is down to observation. There are many mini MSE types of forms, but all follow along the same path - how they talk, how they sit, how they look and how they respond. There is no need to be qualified in a Mental Health setting - you just tick boxes on what you see and hear.

    I was presented with 14 reasons in my assessment reports as to why I did not gain one point for any impact that had a mental issue behind it. There can be no denying that a claimant may well have a diagnosed mental health problem. What the assessor has to gauge is how it should manifest itself when considering the descriptors.

    In my case I also have a lifelong DWP disability award (IIDB) - lost 40% of my normal mental health capabilities due to an acquired physical brain injury and PTSD, this was assessed by a doctor appointed by the DWP as far back as 1995 to start with and lately reviewed in 2011. However the issues that plague me due to this disability do not fit neatly into any of the PIP descriptors.
    As has been said many times you may well have some very serious disabilities but if they do not fit perfectly with enough descriptors you will not get an award. On the other hand someone with mild disabilities that do impact on their life AND fit enough descriptors they will get an award.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Hello love cats hope your well I see you were an assessor at some time I saw a young lady at my assessment . Could I ask you what training you had and understanding of the issues of a 63 year old man suffering with penile cancer please thank you . 
    The issues and how it impacts on the way you live your life should have been put down on the claim form. It is not for the assessor to do the work for you although I too have approached three PIP assessments with that same attitude.
    All the assessor has to do is (a) are the issues and impact you have written about reasonable given the circumstances/diagnosis (b) if so how do those issues and impact fit with any descriptors.
  • GeraldGerald Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    Hi ilovecats okay then you put this down in a post GPs are just that not specialists in any one field of medicine hence why we are refered to hospitals to see consultants for in depth report then you tell me how then can person doing the assessment can come up with there point of view and not read the medical report a think that they are right and the Doctors and Consuitants report are wrong as this has happened to me so who is right the person doing the assessment or a Doctor and Consuitants i know whos word i think is right so answer that one as i think this is a sensible question and not a hostile question Thank you.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 968 Disability Gamechanger
    If I can wind this back to @pamela1962's original point (if anyone remembers that!!) ....

    I checked on three family members who are on various medical registers...the result - I can find one easily, the other two are a bit more difficult (don't know exactly why ..might be something to do with Capital letters or something?)

    Might be worth considering if you can't find someone on the register - I would have assumed that my daughter wasn't registered...if i didn't know for a fact that she is......
  • frecklesfreckles Member Posts: 258 Pioneering
    Its not hostility lovecats its people airing there views and as you use to be an HCP you can imagine how people are feelings when they feel HCP have lied in there reports and the DWP are making a mockery of the benefit system yes not all HCP,s are bad but the ones who are have left people to not to have any faith or belief in pip assements and let the system down people go to a lot of trouble to get medical evidence and its like its not believed maybe you are trying to give people on here help but the way things are with trust between assesors and the DWP is at an all time low 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Gerald said:

    Hi okay then you put this down GPs are just that not specialists in any one field of medicine hence why we are refered to hospitals to see consultants for in depth report then you tell me how then can preson doing the assessment can come up with there point of view and not read the medical report a think that they are right and the Doctors and Consuitants report are wrong as this has happened to me so who is right the person doing the assessment or a Doctor and Consuitants i know whos word i think is right so answer that one 
    What GP or Consultant that you know has given you a report on the findings of tests as to how the impact you say you have fits in with the PIP descriptors? None I would assume. Likewise you are not going to expect a PIP assessor to examine you, diagnose an issue and offer treatment for it. 
  • GeraldGerald Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    Yadnad said:
    Gerald said:

    Hi okay then you put this down GPs are just that not specialists in any one field of medicine hence why we are refered to hospitals to see consultants for in depth report then you tell me how then can preson doing the assessment can come up with there point of view and not read the medical report a think that they are right and the Doctors and Consuitants report are wrong as this has happened to me so who is right the person doing the assessment or a Doctor and Consuitants i know whos word i think is right so answer that one 
    What GP or Consultant that you know has given you a report on the findings of tests as to how the impact you say you have fits in with the PIP descriptors? None I would assume. Likewise you are not going to expect a PIP assessor to examine you, diagnose an issue and offer treatment for it. 
    Hi Yadnad okay then how can a PIP assessor come up with there point of view is right and not reports from a Doctor and Consuitants report as i have a stoma which is a hole in my side which is all so called a colostomy, were one end of the colon is pulled out through a cut in your tummy and stitched to the skin to create a stoma and have a colostomy bag to collect your poo (stools) so how can a PIP assessor put down that no aids are needed to help you to manage toilet needs or  incontinence of either bladder or bowel you tell me is this right the assessor or a Doctor and Consuitants.
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    cristobal said:
    @benistmonk and @freckles -  you seem to be having difficulty with this so I'll summarise:

    No-one is belittling GPs. 

    They are highly trained

    They are not trained in how conditions which they diagnose (because they are highly trained!) impact on a patients day to day life

    The evidence that they submit a lot of the time (but not all the time) is of limited value because it relates to a diagnosis, not a patient's consequent loss of functionality (which, for PIP purposes, is the important bit)




    I am totally amazed that you think GP's do not know how conditions impact a patients life when half their daily workload involves home visits to patients who can't get to the surgery. 
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    Yadnad said:

    What has medical training to be a GP got to do with assessing someone against set criteria as to whether they are able to do some work or are disabled enough to qualify for PIP?
    GP's have an opinion and that is why they issue a sick note, but they are not in a position to test that opinion against the descriptors that make up ESA and PIP.


    Sham assessments have no place in a civilised society, read the UN report, all these assessment do is cause hardship and despair for the poorest people in society. 
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    ilovecats said:

    Pardon my french, but b*$€@&*s! That is just not true.

    A GP has such an immense workload that they rarely leave the practice!

    If you can get a GP to come and visit you at home then you must share the secret because if have spend hours of my professional life trying to convince GP’s to come and see elderly and vulnerable patients at home at 90% of the time they make you take them to hospital even if it isn’t in their best interest because they don’t want to or don’t have the time to come out!

    If on the rare occasion they agree that a home visit is necessary, it is normally a paramedic or nurse practitioner that does the home assessments.


    OMG! what a thing to say because it does not fit in with your narrative. My GP spends more than half her time out of the surgery on home visits, I know that for a fact because I have often had to wait for an appointment. She would always apologise for being late due to her rounds. It was not unusual for her to work very late in the evening, regularly past 6.30pm and on one occasion I was seen at 7.15pm.
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @ilovecats, You were obviously a good assessor, although I find it worrying that you don't consider the medical conditions themselves to be of any importance when assessing claimants. Presenting a diagnosis from a GP or hospital specialist whether from symptoms presented or tests should be respected as hugely significant to assessing the impact the condition has on functional ability and is the only thing a claimant can do to convince the assessor and the DWP that their disability is genuine. Otherwise anyone could walk into an assessment and say they couldn't do whatever you were asking them about. i have a neuroma in my left foot diagnosed by tests therefore it is painful to walk. The alternative scenario is I limp into the assessment and say I have pain when I walk. 
       Also perhaps you could explain to me why my assessor felt it necessary to alter a full A4 sheet i.e. the whole lot of my Muscular Skeletal Examination results from what I actually did and she made up results for the one's I wasn't asked to do? This gave her an argument to then say I didn't need help with most of the personal care activities because and I quote straight from my report "The MSO showed she had slight reduction in power bilaterally to her legs and a slight reduction in spinal flexion. All upper limb movements and power were normal." An example being that I just touched the top of my thighs wwith difficulty, her result stated I was able to touch my knees. 
       You can tell us till you're blue in the face how the job of an assessor should be done and even how you did it but to those of us who've been subjected to a report that is very different from what was said and done in the assessment room you can't expect to be responded to with "how nice" or "yes you're right" type of comments.  
  • GeraldGerald Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    ilovecats said:
    Gerald said:
    Yadnad said:
    Gerald said:

    Hi okay then you put this down GPs are just that not specialists in any one field of medicine hence why we are refered to hospitals to see consultants for in depth report then you tell me how then can preson doing the assessment can come up with there point of view and not read the medical report a think that they are right and the Doctors and Consuitants report are wrong as this has happened to me so who is right the person doing the assessment or a Doctor and Consuitants i know whos word i think is right so answer that one 
    What GP or Consultant that you know has given you a report on the findings of tests as to how the impact you say you have fits in with the PIP descriptors? None I would assume. Likewise you are not going to expect a PIP assessor to examine you, diagnose an issue and offer treatment for it. 
    Hi Yadnad okay then how can a PIP assessor come up with there point of view is right and not reports from a Doctor and Consuitants report as i have a stoma which is a hole in my side which is all so called a colostomy, were one end of the colon is pulled out through a cut in your tummy and stitched to the skin to create a stoma and have a colostomy bag to collect your poo (stools) so how can a PIP assessor put down that no aids are needed to help you to manage toilet needs or  incontinence of either bladder or bowel you tell me is this right the assessor or a Doctor and Consuitants.
    A colostomy bag that you can manage yourself is a B - requires aids. If that is not what you were awarded then contest it.
    Hi ilovecats  and that is my point how can someone in a PIP assessment in a assessment that lasted  20mins think they know more and are right and that  a Doctor and Consuitants. report this is wrong and i was not awarded a point ( 0 ) and as the PIP assessment report from the PIP assessor was that i do not need no aids or aid to manage toilet needs or incontinence bowel and can't be bothered to read specialists letters and then end up at going to a tribunal and win with your tribunal hearing at the last count it was 70% or more that win there tribunal  so that shows how good a job there doing in there assessments and as for the tribunal i am going to one when i get a date and that is from ( FEB 2018 ) and still know date or word on that all that for a PIP assessment report from the PIP assessor that was wrong and not just on this point there was much that the assessor put in is report that was wrong but its okay as there will be know come back on the assessor just keep them numbers up getting the Disabled people off this benefit we will keep paying you your bonus .
  • keirakeira Member Posts: 136 Courageous
    Hello love cats hope your well I see you were an assessor at some time I saw a young lady at my assessment . Could I ask you what training you had and understanding of the issues of a 63 year old man suffering with penile cancer please thank you . 

    Latest post at http://secretassessor.co.uk  "Don't believe the Hype", contains all the medical training material provided in my time. Just explained to a chap who enquired about Crohn's, that's when the assessor is on Wikipedia 10 mins before your assessment.

    7:10 AM - 13 Feb 2019
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Gerald said:
    Yadnad said:
    Gerald said:


    What GP or Consultant that you know has given you a report on the findings of tests as to how the impact you say you have fits in with the PIP descriptors? None I would assume. Likewise you are not going to expect a PIP assessor to examine you, diagnose an issue and offer treatment for it. 
    Hi Yadnad okay then how can a PIP assessor come up with there point of view is right and not reports from a Doctor and Consuitants report as i have a stoma which is a hole in my side which is all so called a colostomy, were one end of the colon is pulled out through a cut in your tummy and stitched to the skin to create a stoma and have a colostomy bag to collect your poo (stools) so how can a PIP assessor put down that no aids are needed to help you to manage toilet needs or  incontinence of either bladder or bowel you tell me is this right the assessor or a Doctor and Consuitants.
    I have put the question to you but have not a reply - your answer will explain the difference between the medical professional and the disability analyst.
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    wildlife said:
    @ilovecats, You were obviously a good assessor, although I find it worrying that you don't consider the medical conditions themselves to be of any importance when assessing claimants. Presenting a diagnosis from a GP or hospital specialist whether from symptoms presented or tests should be respected as hugely significant to assessing the impact the condition has on functional ability and is the only thing a claimant can do to convince the assessor and the DWP that their disability is genuine. Otherwise anyone could walk into an assessment and say they couldn't do whatever you were asking them about. i have a neuroma in my left foot diagnosed by tests therefore it is painful to walk. The alternative scenario is I limp into the assessment and say I have pain when I walk. 
       Also perhaps you could explain to me why my assessor felt it necessary to alter a full A4 sheet i.e. the whole lot of my Muscular Skeletal Examination results from what I actually did and she made up results for the one's I wasn't asked to do? This gave her an argument to then say I didn't need help with most of the personal care activities because and I quote straight from my report "The MSO showed she had slight reduction in power bilaterally to her legs and a slight reduction in spinal flexion. All upper limb movements and power were normal." An example being that I just touched the top of my thighs wwith difficulty, her result stated I was able to touch my knees. 
       You can tell us till you're blue in the face how the job of an assessor should be done and even how you did it but to those of us who've been subjected to a report that is very different from what was said and done in the assessment room you can't expect to be responded to with "how nice" or "yes you're right" type of comments.  


    You hit the nail on the head. Medical letters are the only evidence a claimant can present, the fact that people like ilovecats disregards GP letters and passes them off as patients opinions is disgraceful, but it gives a glimpse of what goes on in the mind of an assessor who is paid to parrot the party line, which is to ignore medical conditions and base the results on how well you think a claimant can move. 

    When being assessed, you are not patients, you are claimants and must be assessed accordingly.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    cristobal said:
    @benistmonk and @freckles -  you seem to be having difficulty with this so I'll summarise:

    No-one is belittling GPs. 

    They are highly trained

    They are not trained in how conditions which they diagnose (because they are highly trained!) impact on a patients day to day life

    The evidence that they submit a lot of the time (but not all the time) is of limited value because it relates to a diagnosis, not a patient's consequent loss of functionality (which, for PIP purposes, is the important bit)




    I am totally amazed that you think GP's do not know how conditions impact a patients life when half their daily workload involves home visits to patients who can't get to the surgery. 
    As a clear example of the normal GP. I see them when I need some advice or intervention. Apart from that there is no need to bother them.
    My GP surgery knows absolutely nothing (other than what I may have told them in passing) about how I manage to live my life. No idea how far I can walk reliably, how I manage in the bath, how I manage whilst on the toilet, how I manage to dress and undress, how I get into and out of bed, how I struggle daily with face to face communication.
    To be truthful all of the above have nothing to do with a GP. Yes I had involvement with Social Services and their OT's but that was 7 years ago. That and other relevant evidence was sent in but the DWP decided against using it as it was clearly out of date.
     
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Yadnad said:

    What has medical training to be a GP got to do with assessing someone against set criteria as to whether they are able to do some work or are disabled enough to qualify for PIP?
    GP's have an opinion and that is why they issue a sick note, but they are not in a position to test that opinion against the descriptors that make up ESA and PIP.


    Sham assessments have no place in a civilised society, read the UN report, all these assessment do is cause hardship and despair for the poorest people in society.
    The UN report? I won't say anything more other than to point out that nobody of any significance in this country gave it the time of day.
  • clarkjohnsonclarkjohnson Member Posts: 210 Pioneering
    Hello everyone. Hello love cats my question wasn't hostile and there's no need for swearing so I'll try again . How does a young girl in her 20 s no how the mental and physical strains encountered by a 63 year old following penile cancer would feel . In other words were you trained for that scenario a simple yes or no will be greatly appreciated. Thank you 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited February 2019









    Hi ilovecats  and that is my point how can someone in a PIP assessment in a assessment that lasted  20mins think they know more and are right and that  a Doctor and Consuitants. report this is wrong and i was not awarded a point ( 0 ) and as the PIP assessment report from the PIP assessor was that i do not need no aids or aid to manage toilet needs or incontinence bowel and can't be bothered to read specialists letters and then end up at going to a tribunal and win with your tribunal hearing at the last count it was 70% or more that win there tribunal  so that shows how good a job there doing in there assessments and as for the tribunal i am going to one when i get a date and that is from ( FEB 2018 ) and still know date or word on that all that for a PIP assessment report from the PIP assessor that was wrong and not just on this point there was much that the assessor put in is report that was wrong but its okay as there will be know come back on the assessor just keep them numbers up getting the Disabled people off this benefit we will keep paying you your bonus .
    I have had 3 face to face assessments for PIP since 2013. All three downgraded the previous award (Enhanced Care & Mobility)  to 0 points. The reports were books of fiction. Do I blame the assessor? No. For a start it was my responsibility to fill out the claim forms correctly and fully - I failed, it was my responsibility to produce relevant and UP TO DATE evidence - I failed, it was my responsibility to explain in as much detail at the face to face assessment as I could about my issues - I failed and worse still antagonised the assessor to boot due to mental health issues.

    People should take responsibility for their failings before blaming everybody and anybody else including the assessors. 
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    Yadnad said:



    The UN report? I won't say anything more other than to point out that nobody of any significance in this country gave it the time of day.

    Precisely, the government took no notice of it whatsoever and continue with their punitive regime, attacking the most vulnerable members of our society. 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Yadnad said:



    The UN report? I won't say anything more other than to point out that nobody of any significance in this country gave it the time of day.

    Precisely, the government took no notice of it whatsoever and continue with their punitive regime, attacking the most vulnerable members of our society. 
    Not just the government but also the majority of the agencies and charities that work with the disabled.
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    Yadnad said:

    As a clear example of the normal GP. I see them when I need some advice or intervention. Apart from that there is no need to bother them.
    My GP surgery knows absolutely nothing (other than what I may have told them in passing) about how I manage to live my life. No idea how far I can walk reliably, how I manage in the bath, how I manage whilst on the toilet, how I manage to dress and undress, how I get into and out of bed, how I struggle daily with face to face communication.
    To be truthful all of the above have nothing to do with a GP. Yes I had involvement with Social Services and their OT's but that was 7 years ago. That and other relevant evidence was sent in but the DWP decided against using it as it was clearly out of date.
     

    I see you are still persisting with the line that GP's know nothing about how conditions affect you, but people with far less medical experience know more than GP's. 

    It's a bit like saying a private outranks a general, good luck with persuading people to believe that line.
  • frecklesfreckles Member Posts: 258 Pioneering
    I,d just like to say something yadnad said last night saying idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis is not a deadly disease and also said that ipf is not important on the grand scheme of things not my words yours..... IPF kills on averge 5,000 every year and theres no cure approx theres around 32,500 around the uk have it and 7,800 new people are diagnosed with ipf every year granted half the people diagnosed with ipf DIE within 3 years so i would say YES IT IS A DEADLY DISEASE
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Yadnad said:

    As a clear example of the normal GP. I see them when I need some advice or intervention. Apart from that there is no need to bother them.
    My GP surgery knows absolutely nothing (other than what I may have told them in passing) about how I manage to live my life. No idea how far I can walk reliably, how I manage in the bath, how I manage whilst on the toilet, how I manage to dress and undress, how I get into and out of bed, how I struggle daily with face to face communication.
    To be truthful all of the above have nothing to do with a GP. Yes I had involvement with Social Services and their OT's but that was 7 years ago. That and other relevant evidence was sent in but the DWP decided against using it as it was clearly out of date.
     

    I see you are still persisting with the line that GP's know nothing about how conditions affect you, but people with far less medical experience know more than GP's. 

    It's a bit like saying a private outranks a general, good luck with persuading people to believe that line.
    From a GP's perspective why would they want to know how you get in and out of bed and what help you need to do so? It's horses for courses - each does a different job simple as.
    You can believe what you want to but no matter what argument you put up it will hold no water. PIP assessors are there to assess what points they can or cannot award you. You may not like the system but you must remember that the vast majority of claimants receive the correct award first time round - so somebody must be doing a good job.  
  • GeraldGerald Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    Yadnad said:
    Gerald said:
    Yadnad said:
    Gerald said:


    What GP or Consultant that you know has given you a report on the findings of tests as to how the impact you say you have fits in with the PIP descriptors? None I would assume. Likewise you are not going to expect a PIP assessor to examine you, diagnose an issue and offer treatment for it. 
    Hi Yadnad okay then how can a PIP assessor come up with there point of view is right and not reports from a Doctor and Consuitants report as i have a stoma which is a hole in my side which is all so called a colostomy, were one end of the colon is pulled out through a cut in your tummy and stitched to the skin to create a stoma and have a colostomy bag to collect your poo (stools) so how can a PIP assessor put down that no aids are needed to help you to manage toilet needs or  incontinence of either bladder or bowel you tell me is this right the assessor or a Doctor and Consuitants.
    I have put the question to you but have not a reply - your answer will explain the difference between the medical professional and the disability analyst.
    Okay Yadnad so off that you think that after seeing a PIP assessor for 20mins knows more about me than my Doctor and Consuitants who are medical professional in 20mins thats my reply not happy with that do you think that the PIP assessor is right then in 20mins thats a good one. 
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Gerald said:
    Yadnad said:
    Gerald said:
    Yadnad said:
    Gerald said:




    Okay Yadnad so off that you think that after seeing a PIP assessor for 20mins knows more about me than my Doctor and Consuitants who are medical professional in 20mins thats my reply not happy with that do you think that the PIP assessor is right then in 20mins thats a good one. 
    Yes they would - they aren't interested in your medical issues or historical problems so why would they want to discuss them with you? Just as long as they can put together an opinion on what you have put on the claim form as to the impact you endure, whether it is medically feasible and whether or not that impact will score points. That's it job done.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 968 Disability Gamechanger

    I’m not an assessor but I started posting on here in the vain hope that I might be able to help others to not make the same mistakes as I did when making a claim.

    If you take nothing else from this topic you must try to understand that It’s important to make a clear distinction between diagnosis and functionality. If you don’t understand this then your claim will go nowhere as that's what PIP is about. Unfortunately, nearly every other post on here starts with a long list of ailments followed by “why did I only score x points” 

    The fact that a GP/Consultant has diagnosed a particular condition will rarely be disputed - certainly not by @ilovecats or any other assessor but it has little impact on functionality. My daughter has epilepsy. Can she claim PIP? No - because her condition has next to no impact on her carrying out daily tasks. She's incredibly lucky.

    Finally I don't believe that people are fully understanding what ilovecats is saying about the evidence from GPs. - some are fairly obviously being a little bit mischievous in feigning ignorance.

    We now know that a GPs opinion about a persons functionality, based on an examination is very valuable (and very rare). We also know that a  report that says "he tells me that he can't stand up for long periods" etc is just about worthless. I have dozens of pages of medical reports written by a top neurologist - valuable as a diagnosis but worthless as regards functionality (mainly because he never mentions it)

    In order to try and make this into a positive post I wonder if there is any sense in suggesting the following?

    Why not approach your GP and ask if he/she if they could examine you and  give an opinion about how your condition affects you in specific area. Something along the lines of, “I examined MR X and found that his arthritis in the left knee prevents him bending it more that xx degrees. This means that he will be able to bend sufficiently to put his socks on”

    My GP is almost certain to say that he’s too busy. And you’ll have to pay I imagine. But worth considering surely?


    I


  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    edited February 2019
    cristobal said:

    Why not approach your GP and ask if he/she if they could examine you and  give an opinion about how your condition affects you in specific area. Something along the lines of, “I examined MR X and found that his arthritis in the left knee prevents him bending it more that xx degrees. This means that he will be able to bend sufficiently to put his socks on”

    My GP is almost certain to say that he’s too busy. And you’ll have to pay I imagine. But worth considering surely?

    That sounds like the way to go forward and I do agree with you in that the GP will say no (due to other pressures) but it may be possible as a paying patient.
    Another suggestion if you have that sort of cash hanging around is to have a private assessment with an OT for a full report on what you can and cannot do. You must be careful as to not put words in their mouth.

    https://www.livingmadeeasy.org.uk/scenario.php?csid=89

    https://rcotss-ip.org.uk/

    The average cost for an assessment is in the region of £600 and any further reports/work is charged out at about £90 an hour.

  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 968 Disability Gamechanger
    £600 per hour?
    Ouch!

  • GeraldGerald Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    Yadnad said:
    Gerald said:
    Yadnad said:
    Gerald said:
    Yadnad said:
    Gerald said:




    Okay Yadnad so off that you think that after seeing a PIP assessor for 20mins knows more about me than my Doctor and Consuitants who are medical professional in 20mins thats my reply not happy with that do you think that the PIP assessor is right then in 20mins thats a good one. 
    Yes they would - they aren't interested in your medical issues or historical problems so why would they want to discuss them with you? Just as long as they can put together an opinion on what you have put on the claim form as to the impact you endure, whether it is medically feasible and whether or not that impact will score points. That's it job done.
    Okay Yadnad just one thing do you work PIP assessment as by that you have put its is looking likely so you think that medical issues or historical problems Doctors and Consuitants who are medical professional reports do not count and how it impacts you and also put down on your PIP claim form then how come you have to go to a assessment if there not going to look at reports or as you have to send them in the first place with your claim form and just take you all off the benefit as like you have put down Yes they would - they aren't interested in your medical issues its a benefit for the Disabled do you think we all go round singing and dancing down the street and thinking lucky me That is B????????IT 
  • GeraldGerald Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    Yadnad said:
    Gerald said:
    Yadnad said:
    Gerald said:
    Yadnad said:
    Gerald said:




    Okay Yadnad so off that you think that after seeing a PIP assessor for 20mins knows more about me than my Doctor and Consuitants who are medical professional in 20mins thats my reply not happy with that do you think that the PIP assessor is right then in 20mins thats a good one. 
    Yes they would - they aren't interested in your medical issues or historical problems so why would they want to discuss them with you? Just as long as they can put together an opinion on what you have put on the claim form as to the impact you endure, whether it is medically feasible and whether or not that impact will score points. That's it job done.
    Okay Yadnad just one thing do you work PIP assessment as by that you have put its is looking likely so you think that medical issues or historical problems Doctors and Consuitants who are medical professional reports do not count and how it impacts you and also put down on your PIP claim form then how come you have to go to a assessment if there not going to look at reports or as you have to send them in the first place with your claim form and just take you all off the benefit as like you have put down Yes they would - they aren't interested in your medical issues its a benefit for the Disabled do you think we all go round singing and dancing down the street and thinking lucky me That is B????????IT 
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    In my experience paying for any sort of physical examination does not go down well with the assessor or DWP. I had 2 reports from a Private Osteopath from 2010 and just before my assessment in 2017. The Osteopath works at the surgery and takes on referals, just the same as an NHS one would, the only difference is the payment. But "they" think if you pay you have influence over the results which is belittling any professional practitioner who has just chosen to go Private. The reports which contained results from a physical examination were ignored. 
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    cristobal said:


    In order to try and make this into a positive post I wonder if there is any sense in suggesting the following?

    Why not approach your GP and ask if he/she if they could examine you and  give an opinion about how your condition affects you in specific area. Something along the lines of, “I examined MR X and found that his arthritis in the left knee prevents him bending it more that xx degrees. This means that he will be able to bend sufficiently to put his socks on”

    My GP is almost certain to say that he’s too busy. And you’ll have to pay I imagine. But worth considering surely?


    I




    Speaking for myself, I could not ask my GP such a question, it is not her job to determine to what degree a condition might affect me. My GP will treat my condition and if that doesn't work, she will refer me to a specialist who will confirm the diagnosis. From that point on, I am treated by a specialist. Such evidence is not good enough for the DWP because they do not care how poor your health is or even if you are at death's door, they are only interested in knowing how you move your arms and legs, 

    I think it would be far better if the DWP used ALL the medical evidence presented to them, rather than using a sham examination process to deny illness exists. 
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 968 Disability Gamechanger
    @gerald and @benistmonk...here's a challenge for you. You think the system's ****, and the assessors are bent.

    How about some constructive advice ? Have you got anything positive to help people through making a claim?
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    @cristobal I contribute but that is none of your business. When you lot stop swearing black is white and stop acting like jackbooted thugs, then I won't need to defend myself against people like you. 
  • clarkjohnsonclarkjohnson Member Posts: 210 Pioneering
    Hello love cats and good evening could you answer my yes or no question please it would be very helpful to me and I would be very grateful I don't want to take up your time a simple yes or no please thank you 
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    ilovecats said:

    Near enough everything I have seen you post is negative, unhelpful and often defamatory. Contributing how exactly?

    Unbelievable! and what you have just posted is what exactly...... positive? It wouldn't surprise me if people like you were paid to go on forums like this to silence people like me. 

    We should all hail this wonderful system that causes nothing but suffering and hardship.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    We are here to help and support each other and although blowing off steam can help, please be mindfull of the terms and conditions which can be found at the bottom of the page
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • GeraldGerald Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    cristobal said:
    @gerald and @benistmonk...here's a challenge for you. You think the system's ****, and the assessors are bent.

    How about some constructive advice ? Have you got anything positive to help people through making a claim?
    Okay cristobal how about this then at your assessment it must be recorded and you get one and one for them to help people through making a claim and then if you go to a tribunal the PIP assessor as to go to and tell them how they have put down something different in there report and not the  medical issues or historical problems Doctors and Consuitants and one of my consuitants is a disability specialist who did a medical report and how it impacts me and do not count and how it impacts your day to day life and my bet is that you come back with thats not fair on the PIP assessor to record them. So how about that my bet is you do not like it.
  • haveacigarhaveacigar Member Posts: 16 Courageous
    @ilovecats...You glad you came out from the back of the sofa? :open_mouth: You are a timely breath of fresh air about here and ruffling a few feathers with truths and facts is a reality check quite a few on here need. Please do not stop. Thanks.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 968 Disability Gamechanger
    Gerald said:
    cristobal said:
    @gerald and @benistmonk...here's a challenge for you. You think the system's ****, and the assessors are bent.

    How about some constructive advice ? Have you got anything positive to help people through making a claim?
    Okay cristobal how about this then at your assessment it must be recorded and you get one and one for them to help people through making a claim and then if you go to a tribunal the PIP assessor as to go to and tell them how they have put down something different in there report and not the  medical issues or historical problems Doctors and Consuitants and one of my consuitants is a disability specialist who did a medical report and how it impacts me and do not count and how it impacts your day to day life and my bet is that you come back with thats not fair on the PIP assessor to record them. So how about that my bet is you do not like it.
    @Gerald ....I don't know why you think that I wouldn't like this idea - if you look back through my posts you'll see that I've always said that interviews should be recorded. Whether the assessors like it is neither here nor there - they'll get used to it...

    I recorded my assessment and it was invaluable. The assessment wasn't done well and i used the recording to force Capita to correct all of the errors. Without the recording I doubt that my claim would have been successful...

  • clarkjohnsonclarkjohnson Member Posts: 210 Pioneering
    Well I'm still waiting for the truth that's a fact it's the third time now yes or no please 
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 968 Disability Gamechanger
    @cristobal I contribute but that is none of your business. When you lot stop swearing black is white and stop acting like jackbooted thugs, then I won't need to defend myself against people like you. 
    @Benistmonk...when you refer to "you lot" I'm not clear who you're associating me with  - I'm a claimant, age 59, successful after a MR, retired due to ill health and I hope to use my experiences  to help people.

    Neither do I fully understand your comment about "swearing black is white" but if you are referring to my race I would be grateful if you would withdraw that part of your insult. I'm proud of my heritage.
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    edited February 2019
    cristobal said:

    Neither do I fully understand your comment about "swearing black is white" but if you are referring to my race I would be grateful if you would withdraw that part of your insult. I'm proud of my heritage.

    Have you never heard that phrase before! it has nothing to do with race. Anyway I copied this from google for you, that's a search engine by the way. Just to put your mind at ease, we can't actually see each other on here, but if you want people to see what you look like, you can post a picture of yourself.... if you like.

    swear black is white

    swear (that) black is white

    To swear, believe, or act like what's true is the opposite of the real situation, especially in order to get what one wantsor to advance one's agenda. The government can't keep swearing black is white when it comes to these real estatefigures, or else we're going to head into the same economic difficulty we were in ten years ago. The president couldswear that black is white, and he would still have people lining up to agree with everything he says.
  • clarkjohnsonclarkjohnson Member Posts: 210 Pioneering
    It's ok now we no the answer thank you very much as if you didn't no it's written all over your face 😃
  • clarkjohnsonclarkjohnson Member Posts: 210 Pioneering
    Check my question out people just scroll back and make your own mind up have a good evening I only asked for help 
  • GeraldGerald Member Posts: 214 Pioneering
    ilovecats said:
    cristobal said:
    Gerald said:
    cristobal said:
    @gerald and @benistmonk...here's a challenge for you. You think the system's ****, and the assessors are bent.

    How about some constructive advice ? Have you got anything positive to help people through making a claim?
    Okay cristobal how about this then at your assessment it must be recorded and you get one and one for them to help people through making a claim and then if you go to a tribunal the PIP assessor as to go to and tell them how they have put down something different in there report and not the  medical issues or historical problems Doctors and Consuitants and one of my consuitants is a disability specialist who did a medical report and how it impacts me and do not count and how it impacts your day to day life and my bet is that you come back with thats not fair on the PIP assessor to record them. So how about that my bet is you do not like it.
    @Gerald ....I don't know why you think that I wouldn't like this idea - if you look back through my posts you'll see that I've always said that interviews should be recorded. Whether the assessors like it is neither here nor there - they'll get used to it...

    I recorded my assessment and it was invaluable. The assessment wasn't done well and i used the recording to force Capita to correct all of the errors. Without the recording I doubt that my claim would have been successful...

    I didn’t have a problem being recorded. If you accurately write down what the claimant says then it shouldn’t make a difference.
    Good  to know ilovecats  if they do not like to record it and then write down something different to what the claimant says then it makes a difference. and my PIP assessor did that and now its my word against is and i asked about recording it and got we do not do that and you can not do it yourself as i was going to give them a copy at the same time this as to be recorded this as to come in as part of the assessment not you have to ask them is it okay just do it .
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    Check my question out people just scroll back and make your own mind up have a good evening I only asked for help 

    Aw c'mon, can't you see your question has been lost. This happens sometimes when dealing with the DWP. :smiley:
  • clarkjohnsonclarkjohnson Member Posts: 210 Pioneering
    You see it wasn't that difficult was it thank you I'll make a note of that pinnocio 
  • BenistmonkBenistmonk Member Posts: 343 Pioneering
    I think the best bet is to secretly record it, better still, if you can afford the technology, get a pinhole camera and video it.
This discussion has been closed.