Does a nurse have to be registered?
Comments
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@ilovecats, You were obviously a good assessor, although I find it worrying that you don't consider the medical conditions themselves to be of any importance when assessing claimants. Presenting a diagnosis from a GP or hospital specialist whether from symptoms presented or tests should be respected as hugely significant to assessing the impact the condition has on functional ability and is the only thing a claimant can do to convince the assessor and the DWP that their disability is genuine. Otherwise anyone could walk into an assessment and say they couldn't do whatever you were asking them about. i have a neuroma in my left foot diagnosed by tests therefore it is painful to walk. The alternative scenario is I limp into the assessment and say I have pain when I walk.
Also perhaps you could explain to me why my assessor felt it necessary to alter a full A4 sheet i.e. the whole lot of my Muscular Skeletal Examination results from what I actually did and she made up results for the one's I wasn't asked to do? This gave her an argument to then say I didn't need help with most of the personal care activities because and I quote straight from my report "The MSO showed she had slight reduction in power bilaterally to her legs and a slight reduction in spinal flexion. All upper limb movements and power were normal." An example being that I just touched the top of my thighs wwith difficulty, her result stated I was able to touch my knees.
You can tell us till you're blue in the face how the job of an assessor should be done and even how you did it but to those of us who've been subjected to a report that is very different from what was said and done in the assessment room you can't expect to be responded to with "how nice" or "yes you're right" type of comments.1 -
ilovecats said:Gerald said:Yadnad said:Gerald said:
Hi okay then you put this down GPs are just that not specialists in any one field of medicine hence why we are refered to hospitals to see consultants for in depth report then you tell me how then can preson doing the assessment can come up with there point of view and not read the medical report a think that they are right and the Doctors and Consuitants report are wrong as this has happened to me so who is right the person doing the assessment or a Doctor and Consuitants i know whos word i think is right so answer that one
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clarkjohnson said:Hello love cats hope your well I see you were an assessor at some time I saw a young lady at my assessment . Could I ask you what training you had and understanding of the issues of a 63 year old man suffering with penile cancer please thank you .
Latest post at http://secretassessor.co.uk "Don't believe the Hype", contains all the medical training material provided in my time. Just explained to a chap who enquired about Crohn's, that's when the assessor is on Wikipedia 10 mins before your assessment.
7:10 AM - 13 Feb 20190 -
Gerald said:Yadnad said:Gerald said:
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wildlife said:@ilovecats, You were obviously a good assessor, although I find it worrying that you don't consider the medical conditions themselves to be of any importance when assessing claimants. Presenting a diagnosis from a GP or hospital specialist whether from symptoms presented or tests should be respected as hugely significant to assessing the impact the condition has on functional ability and is the only thing a claimant can do to convince the assessor and the DWP that their disability is genuine. Otherwise anyone could walk into an assessment and say they couldn't do whatever you were asking them about. i have a neuroma in my left foot diagnosed by tests therefore it is painful to walk. The alternative scenario is I limp into the assessment and say I have pain when I walk.
Also perhaps you could explain to me why my assessor felt it necessary to alter a full A4 sheet i.e. the whole lot of my Muscular Skeletal Examination results from what I actually did and she made up results for the one's I wasn't asked to do? This gave her an argument to then say I didn't need help with most of the personal care activities because and I quote straight from my report "The MSO showed she had slight reduction in power bilaterally to her legs and a slight reduction in spinal flexion. All upper limb movements and power were normal." An example being that I just touched the top of my thighs wwith difficulty, her result stated I was able to touch my knees.
You can tell us till you're blue in the face how the job of an assessor should be done and even how you did it but to those of us who've been subjected to a report that is very different from what was said and done in the assessment room you can't expect to be responded to with "how nice" or "yes you're right" type of comments.
You hit the nail on the head. Medical letters are the only evidence a claimant can present, the fact that people like ilovecats disregards GP letters and passes them off as patients opinions is disgraceful, but it gives a glimpse of what goes on in the mind of an assessor who is paid to parrot the party line, which is to ignore medical conditions and base the results on how well you think a claimant can move.
When being assessed, you are not patients, you are claimants and must be assessed accordingly.0 -
Benistmonk said:cristobal said:@benistmonk and @freckles - you seem to be having difficulty with this so I'll summarise:
No-one is belittling GPs.
They are highly trained
They are not trained in how conditions which they diagnose (because they are highly trained!) impact on a patients day to day life
The evidence that they submit a lot of the time (but not all the time) is of limited value because it relates to a diagnosis, not a patient's consequent loss of functionality (which, for PIP purposes, is the important bit)
I am totally amazed that you think GP's do not know how conditions impact a patients life when half their daily workload involves home visits to patients who can't get to the surgery.
My GP surgery knows absolutely nothing (other than what I may have told them in passing) about how I manage to live my life. No idea how far I can walk reliably, how I manage in the bath, how I manage whilst on the toilet, how I manage to dress and undress, how I get into and out of bed, how I struggle daily with face to face communication.
To be truthful all of the above have nothing to do with a GP. Yes I had involvement with Social Services and their OT's but that was 7 years ago. That and other relevant evidence was sent in but the DWP decided against using it as it was clearly out of date.
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Benistmonk said:Yadnad said:
GP's have an opinion and that is why they issue a sick note, but they are not in a position to test that opinion against the descriptors that make up ESA and PIP.
Sham assessments have no place in a civilised society, read the UN report, all these assessment do is cause hardship and despair for the poorest people in society.
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Hello everyone. Hello love cats my question wasn't hostile and there's no need for swearing so I'll try again . How does a young girl in her 20 s no how the mental and physical strains encountered by a 63 year old following penile cancer would feel . In other words were you trained for that scenario a simple yes or no will be greatly appreciated. Thank you0
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Hi ilovecats and that is my point how can someone in a PIP assessment in a assessment that lasted 20mins think they know more and are right and that a Doctor and Consuitants. report this is wrong and i was not awarded a point ( 0 ) and as the PIP assessment report from the PIP assessor was that i do not need no aids or aid to manage toilet needs or incontinence bowel and can't be bothered to read specialists letters and then end up at going to a tribunal and win with your tribunal hearing at the last count it was 70% or more that win there tribunal so that shows how good a job there doing in there assessments and as for the tribunal i am going to one when i get a date and that is from ( FEB 2018 ) and still know date or word on that all that for a PIP assessment report from the PIP assessor that was wrong and not just on this point there was much that the assessor put in is report that was wrong but its okay as there will be know come back on the assessor just keep them numbers up getting the Disabled people off this benefit we will keep paying you your bonus .
People should take responsibility for their failings before blaming everybody and anybody else including the assessors.
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Yadnad said:
Precisely, the government took no notice of it whatsoever and continue with their punitive regime, attacking the most vulnerable members of our society.0 -
Benistmonk said:Yadnad said:
Precisely, the government took no notice of it whatsoever and continue with their punitive regime, attacking the most vulnerable members of our society.
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Yadnad said:
My GP surgery knows absolutely nothing (other than what I may have told them in passing) about how I manage to live my life. No idea how far I can walk reliably, how I manage in the bath, how I manage whilst on the toilet, how I manage to dress and undress, how I get into and out of bed, how I struggle daily with face to face communication.
To be truthful all of the above have nothing to do with a GP. Yes I had involvement with Social Services and their OT's but that was 7 years ago. That and other relevant evidence was sent in but the DWP decided against using it as it was clearly out of date.
I see you are still persisting with the line that GP's know nothing about how conditions affect you, but people with far less medical experience know more than GP's.
It's a bit like saying a private outranks a general, good luck with persuading people to believe that line.0 -
I,d just like to say something yadnad said last night saying idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis is not a deadly disease and also said that ipf is not important on the grand scheme of things not my words yours..... IPF kills on averge 5,000 every year and theres no cure approx theres around 32,500 around the uk have it and 7,800 new people are diagnosed with ipf every year granted half the people diagnosed with ipf DIE within 3 years so i would say YES IT IS A DEADLY DISEASE0
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Benistmonk said:Yadnad said:
My GP surgery knows absolutely nothing (other than what I may have told them in passing) about how I manage to live my life. No idea how far I can walk reliably, how I manage in the bath, how I manage whilst on the toilet, how I manage to dress and undress, how I get into and out of bed, how I struggle daily with face to face communication.
To be truthful all of the above have nothing to do with a GP. Yes I had involvement with Social Services and their OT's but that was 7 years ago. That and other relevant evidence was sent in but the DWP decided against using it as it was clearly out of date.
I see you are still persisting with the line that GP's know nothing about how conditions affect you, but people with far less medical experience know more than GP's.
It's a bit like saying a private outranks a general, good luck with persuading people to believe that line.
You can believe what you want to but no matter what argument you put up it will hold no water. PIP assessors are there to assess what points they can or cannot award you. You may not like the system but you must remember that the vast majority of claimants receive the correct award first time round - so somebody must be doing a good job.
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Yadnad said:Gerald said:Yadnad said:Gerald said:
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Gerald said:
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I’m not an assessor but I started posting on here in the vain hope that I might be able to help others to not make the same mistakes as I did when making a claim.
If you take nothing else from this topic you must try to understand that It’s important to make a clear distinction between diagnosis and functionality. If you don’t understand this then your claim will go nowhere as that's what PIP is about. Unfortunately, nearly every other post on here starts with a long list of ailments followed by “why did I only score x points”
The fact that a GP/Consultant has diagnosed a particular condition will rarely be disputed - certainly not by @ilovecats or any other assessor but it has little impact on functionality. My daughter has epilepsy. Can she claim PIP? No - because her condition has next to no impact on her carrying out daily tasks. She's incredibly lucky.
Finally I don't believe that people are fully understanding what ilovecats is saying about the evidence from GPs. - some are fairly obviously being a little bit mischievous in feigning ignorance.
We now know that a GPs opinion about a persons functionality, based on an examination is very valuable (and very rare). We also know that a report that says "he tells me that he can't stand up for long periods" etc is just about worthless. I have dozens of pages of medical reports written by a top neurologist - valuable as a diagnosis but worthless as regards functionality (mainly because he never mentions it)
In order to try and make this into a positive post I wonder if there is any sense in suggesting the following?
Why not approach your GP and ask if he/she if they could examine you and give an opinion about how your condition affects you in specific area. Something along the lines of, “I examined MR X and found that his arthritis in the left knee prevents him bending it more that xx degrees. This means that he will be able to bend sufficiently to put his socks on”
My GP is almost certain to say that he’s too busy. And you’ll have to pay I imagine. But worth considering surely?
I
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cristobal said:
Why not approach your GP and ask if he/she if they could examine you and give an opinion about how your condition affects you in specific area. Something along the lines of, “I examined MR X and found that his arthritis in the left knee prevents him bending it more that xx degrees. This means that he will be able to bend sufficiently to put his socks on”
My GP is almost certain to say that he’s too busy. And you’ll have to pay I imagine. But worth considering surely?
Another suggestion if you have that sort of cash hanging around is to have a private assessment with an OT for a full report on what you can and cannot do. You must be careful as to not put words in their mouth.
https://www.livingmadeeasy.org.uk/scenario.php?csid=89
https://rcotss-ip.org.uk/
The average cost for an assessment is in the region of £600 and any further reports/work is charged out at about £90 an hour.
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£600 per hour?
Ouch!
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Yadnad said:Gerald said:
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