Does a nurse have to be registered?
Comments
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@ilovecats, You were obviously a good assessor, although I find it worrying that you don't consider the medical conditions themselves to be of any importance when assessing claimants. Presenting a diagnosis from a GP or hospital specialist whether from symptoms presented or tests should be respected as hugely significant to assessing the impact the condition has on functional ability and is the only thing a claimant can do to convince the assessor and the DWP that their disability is genuine. Otherwise anyone could walk into an assessment and say they couldn't do whatever you were asking them about. i have a neuroma in my left foot diagnosed by tests therefore it is painful to walk. The alternative scenario is I limp into the assessment and say I have pain when I walk.
Also perhaps you could explain to me why my assessor felt it necessary to alter a full A4 sheet i.e. the whole lot of my Muscular Skeletal Examination results from what I actually did and she made up results for the one's I wasn't asked to do? This gave her an argument to then say I didn't need help with most of the personal care activities because and I quote straight from my report "The MSO showed she had slight reduction in power bilaterally to her legs and a slight reduction in spinal flexion. All upper limb movements and power were normal." An example being that I just touched the top of my thighs wwith difficulty, her result stated I was able to touch my knees.
You can tell us till you're blue in the face how the job of an assessor should be done and even how you did it but to those of us who've been subjected to a report that is very different from what was said and done in the assessment room you can't expect to be responded to with "how nice" or "yes you're right" type of comments.1 -
Hi ilovecats and that is my point how can someone in a PIP assessment in a assessment that lasted 20mins think they know more and are right and that a Doctor and Consuitants. report this is wrong and i was not awarded a point ( 0 ) and as the PIP assessment report from the PIP assessor was that i do not need no aids or aid to manage toilet needs or incontinence bowel and can't be bothered to read specialists letters and then end up at going to a tribunal and win with your tribunal hearing at the last count it was 70% or more that win there tribunal so that shows how good a job there doing in there assessments and as for the tribunal i am going to one when i get a date and that is from ( FEB 2018 ) and still know date or word on that all that for a PIP assessment report from the PIP assessor that was wrong and not just on this point there was much that the assessor put in is report that was wrong but its okay as there will be know come back on the assessor just keep them numbers up getting the Disabled people off this benefit we will keep paying you your bonus .ilovecats said:
A colostomy bag that you can manage yourself is a B - requires aids. If that is not what you were awarded then contest it.Gerald said:
Hi Yadnad okay then how can a PIP assessor come up with there point of view is right and not reports from a Doctor and Consuitants report as i have a stoma which is a hole in my side which is all so called a colostomy, were one end of the colon is pulled out through a cut in your tummy and stitched to the skin to create a stoma and have a colostomy bag to collect your poo (stools) so how can a PIP assessor put down that no aids are needed to help you to manage toilet needs or incontinence of either bladder or bowel you tell me is this right the assessor or a Doctor and Consuitants.Yadnad said:
What GP or Consultant that you know has given you a report on the findings of tests as to how the impact you say you have fits in with the PIP descriptors? None I would assume. Likewise you are not going to expect a PIP assessor to examine you, diagnose an issue and offer treatment for it.Gerald said:
Hi okay then you put this down GPs are just that not specialists in any one field of medicine hence why we are refered to hospitals to see consultants for in depth report then you tell me how then can preson doing the assessment can come up with there point of view and not read the medical report a think that they are right and the Doctors and Consuitants report are wrong as this has happened to me so who is right the person doing the assessment or a Doctor and Consuitants i know whos word i think is right so answer that one
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clarkjohnson said:Hello love cats hope your well I see you were an assessor at some time I saw a young lady at my assessment . Could I ask you what training you had and understanding of the issues of a 63 year old man suffering with penile cancer please thank you .
Latest post at http://secretassessor.co.uk "Don't believe the Hype", contains all the medical training material provided in my time. Just explained to a chap who enquired about Crohn's, that's when the assessor is on Wikipedia 10 mins before your assessment.
7:10 AM - 13 Feb 20190 -
I have put the question to you but have not a reply - your answer will explain the difference between the medical professional and the disability analyst.Gerald said:
Hi Yadnad okay then how can a PIP assessor come up with there point of view is right and not reports from a Doctor and Consuitants report as i have a stoma which is a hole in my side which is all so called a colostomy, were one end of the colon is pulled out through a cut in your tummy and stitched to the skin to create a stoma and have a colostomy bag to collect your poo (stools) so how can a PIP assessor put down that no aids are needed to help you to manage toilet needs or incontinence of either bladder or bowel you tell me is this right the assessor or a Doctor and Consuitants.Yadnad said:
What GP or Consultant that you know has given you a report on the findings of tests as to how the impact you say you have fits in with the PIP descriptors? None I would assume. Likewise you are not going to expect a PIP assessor to examine you, diagnose an issue and offer treatment for it.Gerald said:
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wildlife said:@ilovecats, You were obviously a good assessor, although I find it worrying that you don't consider the medical conditions themselves to be of any importance when assessing claimants. Presenting a diagnosis from a GP or hospital specialist whether from symptoms presented or tests should be respected as hugely significant to assessing the impact the condition has on functional ability and is the only thing a claimant can do to convince the assessor and the DWP that their disability is genuine. Otherwise anyone could walk into an assessment and say they couldn't do whatever you were asking them about. i have a neuroma in my left foot diagnosed by tests therefore it is painful to walk. The alternative scenario is I limp into the assessment and say I have pain when I walk.
Also perhaps you could explain to me why my assessor felt it necessary to alter a full A4 sheet i.e. the whole lot of my Muscular Skeletal Examination results from what I actually did and she made up results for the one's I wasn't asked to do? This gave her an argument to then say I didn't need help with most of the personal care activities because and I quote straight from my report "The MSO showed she had slight reduction in power bilaterally to her legs and a slight reduction in spinal flexion. All upper limb movements and power were normal." An example being that I just touched the top of my thighs wwith difficulty, her result stated I was able to touch my knees.
You can tell us till you're blue in the face how the job of an assessor should be done and even how you did it but to those of us who've been subjected to a report that is very different from what was said and done in the assessment room you can't expect to be responded to with "how nice" or "yes you're right" type of comments.
You hit the nail on the head. Medical letters are the only evidence a claimant can present, the fact that people like ilovecats disregards GP letters and passes them off as patients opinions is disgraceful, but it gives a glimpse of what goes on in the mind of an assessor who is paid to parrot the party line, which is to ignore medical conditions and base the results on how well you think a claimant can move.
When being assessed, you are not patients, you are claimants and must be assessed accordingly.0 -
As a clear example of the normal GP. I see them when I need some advice or intervention. Apart from that there is no need to bother them.Benistmonk said:cristobal said:@benistmonk and @freckles - you seem to be having difficulty with this so I'll summarise:
No-one is belittling GPs.
They are highly trained
They are not trained in how conditions which they diagnose (because they are highly trained!) impact on a patients day to day life
The evidence that they submit a lot of the time (but not all the time) is of limited value because it relates to a diagnosis, not a patient's consequent loss of functionality (which, for PIP purposes, is the important bit)
I am totally amazed that you think GP's do not know how conditions impact a patients life when half their daily workload involves home visits to patients who can't get to the surgery.
My GP surgery knows absolutely nothing (other than what I may have told them in passing) about how I manage to live my life. No idea how far I can walk reliably, how I manage in the bath, how I manage whilst on the toilet, how I manage to dress and undress, how I get into and out of bed, how I struggle daily with face to face communication.
To be truthful all of the above have nothing to do with a GP. Yes I had involvement with Social Services and their OT's but that was 7 years ago. That and other relevant evidence was sent in but the DWP decided against using it as it was clearly out of date.
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The UN report? I won't say anything more other than to point out that nobody of any significance in this country gave it the time of day.Benistmonk said:Yadnad said:
What has medical training to be a GP got to do with assessing someone against set criteria as to whether they are able to do some work or are disabled enough to qualify for PIP?
GP's have an opinion and that is why they issue a sick note, but they are not in a position to test that opinion against the descriptors that make up ESA and PIP.
Sham assessments have no place in a civilised society, read the UN report, all these assessment do is cause hardship and despair for the poorest people in society.
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Hello everyone. Hello love cats my question wasn't hostile and there's no need for swearing so I'll try again . How does a young girl in her 20 s no how the mental and physical strains encountered by a 63 year old following penile cancer would feel . In other words were you trained for that scenario a simple yes or no will be greatly appreciated. Thank you0
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I have had 3 face to face assessments for PIP since 2013. All three downgraded the previous award (Enhanced Care & Mobility) to 0 points. The reports were books of fiction. Do I blame the assessor? No. For a start it was my responsibility to fill out the claim forms correctly and fully - I failed, it was my responsibility to produce relevant and UP TO DATE evidence - I failed, it was my responsibility to explain in as much detail at the face to face assessment as I could about my issues - I failed and worse still antagonised the assessor to boot due to mental health issues.
Hi ilovecats and that is my point how can someone in a PIP assessment in a assessment that lasted 20mins think they know more and are right and that a Doctor and Consuitants. report this is wrong and i was not awarded a point ( 0 ) and as the PIP assessment report from the PIP assessor was that i do not need no aids or aid to manage toilet needs or incontinence bowel and can't be bothered to read specialists letters and then end up at going to a tribunal and win with your tribunal hearing at the last count it was 70% or more that win there tribunal so that shows how good a job there doing in there assessments and as for the tribunal i am going to one when i get a date and that is from ( FEB 2018 ) and still know date or word on that all that for a PIP assessment report from the PIP assessor that was wrong and not just on this point there was much that the assessor put in is report that was wrong but its okay as there will be know come back on the assessor just keep them numbers up getting the Disabled people off this benefit we will keep paying you your bonus .
People should take responsibility for their failings before blaming everybody and anybody else including the assessors.
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Yadnad said:
The UN report? I won't say anything more other than to point out that nobody of any significance in this country gave it the time of day.
Precisely, the government took no notice of it whatsoever and continue with their punitive regime, attacking the most vulnerable members of our society.0 -
Not just the government but also the majority of the agencies and charities that work with the disabled.Benistmonk said:Yadnad said:
The UN report? I won't say anything more other than to point out that nobody of any significance in this country gave it the time of day.
Precisely, the government took no notice of it whatsoever and continue with their punitive regime, attacking the most vulnerable members of our society.
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Yadnad said:
As a clear example of the normal GP. I see them when I need some advice or intervention. Apart from that there is no need to bother them.
My GP surgery knows absolutely nothing (other than what I may have told them in passing) about how I manage to live my life. No idea how far I can walk reliably, how I manage in the bath, how I manage whilst on the toilet, how I manage to dress and undress, how I get into and out of bed, how I struggle daily with face to face communication.
To be truthful all of the above have nothing to do with a GP. Yes I had involvement with Social Services and their OT's but that was 7 years ago. That and other relevant evidence was sent in but the DWP decided against using it as it was clearly out of date.
I see you are still persisting with the line that GP's know nothing about how conditions affect you, but people with far less medical experience know more than GP's.
It's a bit like saying a private outranks a general, good luck with persuading people to believe that line.0 -
I,d just like to say something yadnad said last night saying idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis is not a deadly disease and also said that ipf is not important on the grand scheme of things not my words yours..... IPF kills on averge 5,000 every year and theres no cure approx theres around 32,500 around the uk have it and 7,800 new people are diagnosed with ipf every year granted half the people diagnosed with ipf DIE within 3 years so i would say YES IT IS A DEADLY DISEASE0
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From a GP's perspective why would they want to know how you get in and out of bed and what help you need to do so? It's horses for courses - each does a different job simple as.Benistmonk said:Yadnad said:
As a clear example of the normal GP. I see them when I need some advice or intervention. Apart from that there is no need to bother them.
My GP surgery knows absolutely nothing (other than what I may have told them in passing) about how I manage to live my life. No idea how far I can walk reliably, how I manage in the bath, how I manage whilst on the toilet, how I manage to dress and undress, how I get into and out of bed, how I struggle daily with face to face communication.
To be truthful all of the above have nothing to do with a GP. Yes I had involvement with Social Services and their OT's but that was 7 years ago. That and other relevant evidence was sent in but the DWP decided against using it as it was clearly out of date.
I see you are still persisting with the line that GP's know nothing about how conditions affect you, but people with far less medical experience know more than GP's.
It's a bit like saying a private outranks a general, good luck with persuading people to believe that line.
You can believe what you want to but no matter what argument you put up it will hold no water. PIP assessors are there to assess what points they can or cannot award you. You may not like the system but you must remember that the vast majority of claimants receive the correct award first time round - so somebody must be doing a good job.
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Okay Yadnad so off that you think that after seeing a PIP assessor for 20mins knows more about me than my Doctor and Consuitants who are medical professional in 20mins thats my reply not happy with that do you think that the PIP assessor is right then in 20mins thats a good one.Yadnad said:
I have put the question to you but have not a reply - your answer will explain the difference between the medical professional and the disability analyst.Gerald said:
Hi Yadnad okay then how can a PIP assessor come up with there point of view is right and not reports from a Doctor and Consuitants report as i have a stoma which is a hole in my side which is all so called a colostomy, were one end of the colon is pulled out through a cut in your tummy and stitched to the skin to create a stoma and have a colostomy bag to collect your poo (stools) so how can a PIP assessor put down that no aids are needed to help you to manage toilet needs or incontinence of either bladder or bowel you tell me is this right the assessor or a Doctor and Consuitants.Yadnad said:
What GP or Consultant that you know has given you a report on the findings of tests as to how the impact you say you have fits in with the PIP descriptors? None I would assume. Likewise you are not going to expect a PIP assessor to examine you, diagnose an issue and offer treatment for it.Gerald said:
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Yes they would - they aren't interested in your medical issues or historical problems so why would they want to discuss them with you? Just as long as they can put together an opinion on what you have put on the claim form as to the impact you endure, whether it is medically feasible and whether or not that impact will score points. That's it job done.Gerald said:
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I’m not an assessor but I started posting on here in the vain hope that I might be able to help others to not make the same mistakes as I did when making a claim.
If you take nothing else from this topic you must try to understand that It’s important to make a clear distinction between diagnosis and functionality. If you don’t understand this then your claim will go nowhere as that's what PIP is about. Unfortunately, nearly every other post on here starts with a long list of ailments followed by “why did I only score x points”
The fact that a GP/Consultant has diagnosed a particular condition will rarely be disputed - certainly not by @ilovecats or any other assessor but it has little impact on functionality. My daughter has epilepsy. Can she claim PIP? No - because her condition has next to no impact on her carrying out daily tasks. She's incredibly lucky.
Finally I don't believe that people are fully understanding what ilovecats is saying about the evidence from GPs. - some are fairly obviously being a little bit mischievous in feigning ignorance.
We now know that a GPs opinion about a persons functionality, based on an examination is very valuable (and very rare). We also know that a report that says "he tells me that he can't stand up for long periods" etc is just about worthless. I have dozens of pages of medical reports written by a top neurologist - valuable as a diagnosis but worthless as regards functionality (mainly because he never mentions it)
In order to try and make this into a positive post I wonder if there is any sense in suggesting the following?
Why not approach your GP and ask if he/she if they could examine you and give an opinion about how your condition affects you in specific area. Something along the lines of, “I examined MR X and found that his arthritis in the left knee prevents him bending it more that xx degrees. This means that he will be able to bend sufficiently to put his socks on”
My GP is almost certain to say that he’s too busy. And you’ll have to pay I imagine. But worth considering surely?
I
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That sounds like the way to go forward and I do agree with you in that the GP will say no (due to other pressures) but it may be possible as a paying patient.cristobal said:Why not approach your GP and ask if he/she if they could examine you and give an opinion about how your condition affects you in specific area. Something along the lines of, “I examined MR X and found that his arthritis in the left knee prevents him bending it more that xx degrees. This means that he will be able to bend sufficiently to put his socks on”
My GP is almost certain to say that he’s too busy. And you’ll have to pay I imagine. But worth considering surely?
Another suggestion if you have that sort of cash hanging around is to have a private assessment with an OT for a full report on what you can and cannot do. You must be careful as to not put words in their mouth.
https://www.livingmadeeasy.org.uk/scenario.php?csid=89
https://rcotss-ip.org.uk/
The average cost for an assessment is in the region of £600 and any further reports/work is charged out at about £90 an hour.
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£600 per hour?
Ouch!
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Okay Yadnad just one thing do you work PIP assessment as by that you have put its is looking likely so you think that medical issues or historical problems Doctors and Consuitants who are medical professional reports do not count and how it impacts you and also put down on your PIP claim form then how come you have to go to a assessment if there not going to look at reports or as you have to send them in the first place with your claim form and just take you all off the benefit as like you have put down Yes they would - they aren't interested in your medical issues its a benefit for the Disabled do you think we all go round singing and dancing down the street and thinking lucky me That is B????????ITYadnad said:
Yes they would - they aren't interested in your medical issues or historical problems so why would they want to discuss them with you? Just as long as they can put together an opinion on what you have put on the claim form as to the impact you endure, whether it is medically feasible and whether or not that impact will score points. That's it job done.Gerald said:
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