Why have PIP done 2 assessments in a week? — Scope | Disability forum
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Why have PIP done 2 assessments in a week?

sarah1986
sarah1986 Member Posts: 37 Listener
Hi all please can I ask y have pip done 2 assessments in a week. I had a telephone assessment on 15 Feb requested my report crossed check it 31 points. A few days later my local MP requested my report he received a paperbased one that was done on the 23rd of Feb, which we knew nothing about

Comments

  • janer1967
    janer1967 Member Posts: 12,239 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi there 

    Tbh I'm not sure not heard of this before unless the copy the mp got was a decision based on a combination of 0paper and phone assessment 

    Unless anyone else can advise I suggest you give them a call 
    Here to help with my experience in hunan resources and employment rights 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,452 Disability Gamechanger
    The more pertinent question would be why you have an MP involved?
  • sarah1986
    sarah1986 Member Posts: 37 Listener
    My MP is involved because I should of been done under special rules and I wasn't 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,452 Disability Gamechanger
    And the process for Special Rules is that an assessment is effectively done on paper provided a consultant has made the appropriate statement. So, it’s likely your MP has simply received a copy of what would have happened had the Special Rules process been followed from the off. 

    The reason you would not be told about that is because it’s possible to apply for Special Rules without the knowledge of the claimant who may not be fully aware of their prognosis. It would make a nonsense of the process if someone could apply on behalf of someone else without telling them and then DWP go tell them anyway causing all manner of ethical and emotional issues. So, understandable caution I’d have thought.
  • sarah1986
    sarah1986 Member Posts: 37 Listener
    It's just the paperbased was done 7 days after my telephone assessment which lasted over a hour. I have been fighting for my renewal now for 6 months and still counted something isn't right 
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,452 Disability Gamechanger
    Does it matter? Surely all that matters is whether one or both assessments fell in your favour and recommend an award. Until you know that what exactly would you or your MP be querying or wanting to change?
  • sarah1986
    sarah1986 Member Posts: 37 Listener
    Y are u being so hostile about this I came for advice. Even pip said there shouldn't b 2 assessments and wiv me being terminally ill with cancer and Parkinson's. The stress doesn't help with either illness 
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,270 Disability Gamechanger
    sarah1986 said:
    Y are u being so hostile about this I came for advice. Even pip said there shouldn't b 2 assessments and wiv me being terminally ill with cancer and Parkinson's. The stress doesn't help with either illness 
    Sorry but Mike was only trying to help, did you apply under special rules? and why was your MP involved? and as Mike rightly pointed out why does it really matter as long as you got the award, which I assume was for enhance care and mobility?
    Offering PIP advice to people with epilepsy.
  • sarah1986
    sarah1986 Member Posts: 37 Listener
    Yeah I did as it was a renewal and my consultant put a ds1500 form in. My mp involved cus I shouldn't still be waiting for a decision when special rules is meant to fast track it 
  • sarah1986
    sarah1986 Member Posts: 37 Listener
    Plus both of the assessments r completely different. 1 granting points and other no points 
  • Sandy_123
    Sandy_123 Member Posts: 1,969 Pioneering
    @sarah1986 hi there, might be worth giving pip a call, hope you get it all sorted out soon.
  • sarah1986
    sarah1986 Member Posts: 37 Listener
    I did and he couldn't understand y there was 2 and said they normally go off telephone assessment, but doesn't stop u worrying about it. 
  • woodbine
    woodbine Community Co-Production Group Posts: 5,270 Disability Gamechanger
    Your best course of action might be to tele them tomorrow and ask for a decision maker to call you back.
    Offering PIP advice to people with epilepsy.
  • sarah1986
    sarah1986 Member Posts: 37 Listener
    Thank u I will do x
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,452 Disability Gamechanger
    sarah1986 said:
    Y are u being so hostile about this I came for advice. Even pip said there shouldn't b 2 assessments and wiv me being terminally ill with cancer and Parkinson's. The stress doesn't help with either illness 
    No hostility here. Just focusing on facts. The award is all that matters. The number of reports do not. Have already offered an explanation as to why. 

    One of the incredible features of the introduction of UC has been the loss of decision makers from PIP to UC and that’s especially true of special rules where the 10 day processing has largely been abandoned as staff moved over. The lack of publicity over this is nothing short of a scandal.
  • sarah1986
    sarah1986 Member Posts: 37 Listener
    It's just so frustrating how they can mess up and mess about so badly. It shouldn't ave to be this hard. It's wrong that people have to suffer through it all 
  • Adrian_Scope
    Adrian_Scope Posts: 8,076

    Scope community team

    edited March 22
    Good morning @sarah1986
    Sorry if I’m missed this in your replies but I was just wondering if you’ve had your decision yet or just the two (contradicting) assessment reports? 
    I think most of us would feel frustrated having to go through an assessment only to then find out they’ve done a paper-based one anyway. Was it the later paper-based one that offered no points or the telephone assessment? 
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    Scope

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  • sarah1986
    sarah1986 Member Posts: 37 Listener
    It was the later paper based that offered no points, the telephone assessment which I went through first, and crossed check was 31 points, I'm still waiting on a decision
  • Adrian_Scope
    Adrian_Scope Posts: 8,076

    Scope community team

    No wonder you're anxious with them both recommending different things @sarah1986. I noticed you mentioned you've been fighting for your renewal for 6 months, is that how long ago you put your DS1500 in? That's appalling and I'm so sorry you've been kept waiting so long. Have you put in an official complaint? 

    I may be wrong but it sounds like they've missed the fact this was supposed to follow the Special Rules process entirely.
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    Scope

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  • sarah1986
    sarah1986 Member Posts: 37 Listener
    My local mp has put a complaint in for me, as I can't cope with it much long, I've had to go back to my gp because things where getting that bad. Yes my ds1500 form was sent in 6 months ago with my renewal. I am starting to lose the will of fighting them. I just don't understand why I had a telephone assessment on the 15th of Feb go through all that for over a hour, then on 23rd of Feb do a paperbased. I was told they do assessments where they speak to you if things are missing, I am still now waiting for a decision
  • Adrian_Scope
    Adrian_Scope Posts: 8,076

    Scope community team

    Hi @sarah1986. How are you getting on? Have you heard anything more? 

    mikehughescq said:
    One of the incredible features of the introduction of UC has been the loss of decision makers from PIP to UC and that’s especially true of special rules where the 10 day processing has largely been abandoned as staff moved over. The lack of publicity over this is nothing short of a scandal.
    I'm really interested in reading more about this Mike, do you have any stats? The only thing I've been able to find indicated that the median time has been pretty consistent and in Jan was 4 days. Although it is very possible I've misinterpreted the data.
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  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,452 Disability Gamechanger
    I always use this @Adrian_Scope but I think it tells you what you already know really at present. DWP insist there is no issue. The stats. suggest there is no issue. Anecdotally we know there are issues.

    - people applying via Special Rules and being told that they don't apply to them!
    - consultants DS1500s being over-ruled by DWP as a source of accurate information.
    - Special Rules claims taking more than a month or two to be determined. 
    - Special Rules cases being reviewed well inside the usual 3 year timescale and removed from Special Rules without justification. 

    Quite staggering stuff really but the scale is hard to judge

    Outside of the bare stats and the anecdotal stuff I have been in a number of meetings over the past 8 years with some very senior DWP staff (including Neil Couling) and it was made very clear that, for example, managers within PIP were being moved to UC and thus PIP decision quality checking went out the window for a period when that happened.

    There was then a second move of decision making staff from PIP to UC and you can pretty much plot such moves against obvious slow downs in the DLA to PIP conversion process. Finally there was the infamous Maria Miller comment about the intent of PIP being to decrease the DLA budget by 20%. Lots of weird justifications were given for that and she and others did their best to deny the comment was ever made despite it being a matter of public record; widely reported at the time and returning to haunt us periodically as yet another review of PIP is launched etc. Eventually it came out that the specific reason that they wanted 20% off the PIP budget was explicitly to pay for UC. 

    As the pandemic hit then of course record claims for UC were made. The management of this has been widely touted as a success but, if you momentarily accept that it was a "success" in the broadest, loosest sense, then that was achieved by... shifting staff out of other services. I was led to believe as part of an informal discussion during part of an un-related meeting that lowering the priority of PIP change of circs. was one way to address this move but nevertheless there had been direct hits on the ability to process and pay Special Rules amongst other things. 

    One could be exceptionally cynical and suggest that was a service quality hit that government and DWP would accept as who would be around to challenge such delays. However, at present the issue is getting the basic data to back up the feeling that something is amiss. 

    I believe there are a few FOIs in the pipeline to try and clarify some of this. 
  • calcotti
    calcotti Member Posts: 2,996 Disability Gamechanger
    I always use this 
    I confess I have never managed to navigate the DWP statistics to find the information that would be useful!
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • mikehughescq
    mikehughescq Member Posts: 7,452 Disability Gamechanger
    edited March 24
    Entirely understandable. They’re getting better at accessible stuff but still not great. I spent two hours yesterday helping with their next revision of the online Pension Credit claim and it was surprising how much information I end up giving them which to me ought to be obvious but apparently wasn’t.
  • Adrian_Scope
    Adrian_Scope Posts: 8,076

    Scope community team

    I always use this @Adrian_Scope but I think it tells you what you already know really at present. DWP insist there is no issue. The stats. suggest there is no issue. Anecdotally we know there are issues.
    Thanks @mikehughescq, I appreciate the detailed reply. I've raised it with our policy team to explore.
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  • Adrian_Scope
    Adrian_Scope Posts: 8,076

    Scope community team

    calcotti said:
    I confess I have never managed to navigate the DWP statistics to find the information that would be useful!
    I have to agree, they're not the easiest to navigate!
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  • sarah1986
    sarah1986 Member Posts: 37 Listener
    @Adrian_Scope I spoke with the welfare rights yesterday he is now my rep so I'm not as stressed about it, he is ringing the assessor's today and then pip to find out why two assessment's ave been done when that shouldn't happen, so hopefully tomorrow I will get some answer.
  • Adrian_Scope
    Adrian_Scope Posts: 8,076

    Scope community team

    I’m really glad you’ve managed to get someone from Welfare Rights to rep you @sarah1986. Hopefully you hear something very soon - please keep in touch and let us know how you get on. 
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    Scope

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