Does anyone have any experience with Shoulder Injury Relating to Vaccine Administration (SIRVA)?
Comments
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This is the best I can do. Feel free to copy/paste/share in the UK and elsewhere. SIRVA is real.0 -
Hi everyone
I've had both my 'jabs' and have been suffering SIRVA since my first vaccination in February. Like others on here, I had physiotherapy for a few weeks but on my last visit the physio said she would write to my doctor suggesting that further investigations be done (MRI or Ultrasound scan) to determine exactly where the injury is so that more precise, appropriate treatment could be given. I had my second vaccination in my other arm and that has been fine.
I recently began to research SIRVA and found that it isn't uncommon, however, I also came across many research studies that said intramuscular vaccines injected into the shoulder joint/bursa/tendon etc., are ineffective. I have listed one of the articles below but there are others that state the same or similar.
The Lancet: February 06, 2021
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00192-6/fulltext
"the appropriate intramuscular site will be essential for ensuring efficacy of the vaccine, as placement in a bursa or joint will prevent immune system exposure"
On finding this I contacted my doctor to see if I could be re-jabbed but was told that it wasn't possible as this would be a third vaccination.
Because I am aware that my one effective vaccination will leave me unprotected in a few months, I then contacted my local MP about the matter, after all, I've followed all the rules during this time and yet, through no fault of my own, I am eventually going to be left unprotected because of someone else's error.
My MP forwarded my concerns to my local NHS Clinical Commissioning Group who responded:
" I have been advised by the senior clinician in Public Health that her first dose will have provided enough of a primer for her second dose to be effective." and "the vaccination trials included some lower doses and the evidence showed that a second dose still produced a good boost."However, I consider the above statement to be invalid in this matter as I have enough scientific background to understand that the vaccination trial results to which he refers are those where vaccinations were carried out correctly, into muscle tissue, and not elsewhere. Therefore, I am still concerned about the position I am in, where the current protection afforded me is gradually waning and if/when I became eligible for a 'booster," that booster would only serve as a first vaccination for me.
I sincerely apologise if anyone feels my post is too negative or worrying to have been put on this forum but I am genuinely concerned that there are many, many people in the same position as myself who believe they are as fully protected as possible when they may not actually be so.
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Hi @Hopefulone - & welcome to the community. We are always asked to use reputable sources, as you have done; few would argue with a link to the Lancet, so thank you for that. This is something I've wondered about as, after all, such vaccinations are meant to be intramuscular. At my last vaccination, & after reading the problems some have posted here about SIRVA, I started abducting my arm to make my deltoid muscle more apparent as the administrator seemed hesitant, yet was immediately told to relax my arm. After the administrator saying they needed to feel my shoulder joint, then seeming to measure down with their fingers, I felt apprehensive, but to be honest, then received a jab before I could have said anything. It was at least an inch higher than my first jab (which I felt perfectly comfortable with). It's not too hard to identify the deltoid muscle, so it's a sorry state of affairs if some vaccinations are incorrectly administered.I do appreciate your concern, & think I would have felt the same even before reading this article. It seems you have been fobbed off; I can't see how it could be necessarily presumed your case is similar to having had an initial lower dose (which were presumably correctly administered in the trials mentioned).As yet we perhaps don't know enough, & even if Drs keep up to date, they rely in part upon the medical literature. I had a somewhat similar problem after finding out about what I thought our family's genetic problem was, but it had to be associated with another disorder to make sense of it all. There was nothing in the medical literature, so I searched for similar genetic problems & found connections there. My way to 'persuade' Drs was to write a review of the medical literature referencing medical papers to back this up, then printing this out. I'm not saying it would work, but perhaps worth a try.0
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18 Medical, University, and National instances that make note of SIRVA:
Tell Boris, Justin & Joe...
CFP
https://www.cfp.ca/content/cfp/65/1/40.full.pdf
Sage Journal
NIH (repeats below)
Sherilyn K. D. Houle, Kelly A. Grindrod, 2018
Shoulder injury related to vaccine administration and other injection site events
Health Mag
What Is SIRVA? What to Know About Shoulder Injury From Flu Shot | Health.com
UofWaterloo
Canada Gov
Adverse events following immunization in British Columbia - Canada.ca
Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder_injury_related_to_vaccine_administration
Wired
https://www.wired.com/2015/09/cases-shoulder-injuries-vaccines-increasing/
CureUs Med-Science Journal
National Institutes of Health
Harvard
UK Pharmaceutical Journal
Highlighting shoulder injury related to vaccine administration - The Pharmaceutical Journal
USAF and Oxford
Journal of Shoulder Surgery
US Government Human Resources
https://www.hrsa.gov/sites/default/files/vaccinecompensation/vaccineinjurytable.pdf
vaccineinjurytable.pdf
ISMP
ISMPCSB2021-i2-COVID19-Vaccine-Error-Prevention.pdf
Orthopaedic Surgeon
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Thank you Chiarieds and Dubopp for your comments and information. I don't intend to give up,. It has also been suggested that my next course of action should be to contact the media.0
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Hi All,
Good Morning
I too would like to thank Chiarieds, Dubopp and everyone for their openness, comments and information. Some exceptionally good reading indeed! – Thank you!
After carrying out many hours of research, I am not too sure SIRVA is a widely recognised, accepted of even known affliction associated with the administration of a vaccine in the UK. However, like most people on here having experienced a frozen shoulder first-hand we as a group surely do recognise the adverse consequence this has on our well-being, everyday life and mindset.
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Hi all,
Thank you @chiarieds @dubopp and @Hopefulone for all the info. I'd be happy to go to the media although I do wonder how likely they would be to cover this given it could potentially put people off getting their Covid vaccine.
It's now been 4 months and unfortunately I've seen no improvement, it's more painful if anything - especially in mornings. I can't dress myself and trying to do anything other than sit still is painful. I'm so sorry that others are struggling, it is not fun!
I submitted a formal complaint to the surgery where I was vaccinated and directed it through my local CCG. It was actioned immediately, but I've now been told by 2 GPs and a clinical lead that the injury is definitely NOT related to the vaccine and that the needles being used are too short to cause any damage. I'm livid with this - it's evidently an attempt to fob me off and I know others are experiencing the same. I'm under the impression the inches used are 1" 23/25g which is certainly long enough to result in SIRVA. My complaint was not responded to in writing so I will be escalating this. I have thankfully been sent an ultrasound appointment so hopefully this will shed some light.
I've included some more links just in case anyone wants to to do any further research.https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736%2821%2900192-6
https://www.jabfm.org/content/jabfp/25/6/919.full.pdf
https://institutionalrepository.aah.org/radio/2/
https://europepmc.org/article/pmc/pmc7906721
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.4161/hv.27232
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/948294
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00256-021-03803-x
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Hi
I had my second AZ vaccination end of May and initially felt a little bruised in that area and discomfort when dressing but, after reading up on side affects, found this to be normal and that it was a good sign.. that the vaccine was working. Now, nearly seven weeks later, the pain in my arm and shoulder is excruciating especially in the morning and for the last couple of days I’m waking with pins and needles in my hand. So glad to have found this link and others experiencing the same symptoms as all I could find before was ‘CovidArm’ cases.. mine isn’t THAT.. there’s no external signs of redness but this internal pain in the shoulder/top of the arm is worsening. I’m seeing a doctor today and will update.0 -
Hi @ali57 Did you mean for your comment to be posted on the thread about SIRVA? I can move it there if so.
I'm sorry to hear that you've been experiencing pain in your shoulder, and hope that your doctor can get to the bottom of it and put together a treatment plan for you.0 -
Hi yes sorry.. just getting to grips on this feed! ??♀️?0
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No problem @ali57 I'll move all of this over to that thread. 0
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Hi @Username_removed - I presume you’re not suffering from SIRVA? If you are, I’m very sorry and if you’re not I’m a little unsure as to why others discussing their suffering is such an issue for you. Please see my thoughts below.
SIRVA is an umbrella term for an injury caused by improper administration (ie. bursitis, rotator cuff damage etc). Whilst recognised in other countries, is not recognised over here therefore many of us are struggling to get referrals and a proper diagnosis. I was only able to get an ultrasound after complaining about the vaccine centre to my local CCG.
There are many developments happening with SIRVA now, with results of recent scientific studies being published in the last couple of months. Whilst not all the above links are peer reviewed, some are and many are scientific studies. The covid vaccination programme is the largest mass programme we’ve ever seen so naturally more people are going experience SIRVA. This thread is a fraction of the number that have come forward online, and of these in the UK it seems only 3 or 4 so far have had an official SIRVA diagnosis. We are fighting because our experiences are being ignored and the issue is wholly preventable - with more comprehensive training. The medical community generally accepts that SIRVA exists - yet most vaccinators have never been informed of it. Some of us can’t dress ourselves, are unable to work, can’t wash our hair, can’t hold our children and are in permanent pain. I’d have thought more compassion ought to be employed on a disability forum that is here to support people.
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AmyS1992 Well Said! I totally concur with everything you have written. There is a similar thread on this forum with many others whom are suffering too. Take care, Stay Safe and Well. Mike.AmyS1992 said:Hi @Username_removed - I presume you’re not suffering from SIRVA? If you are, I’m very sorry and if you’re not I’m a little unsure as to why others discussing their suffering is such an issue for you. Please see my thoughts below.
SIRVA is an umbrella term for an injury caused by improper administration (ie. bursitis, rotator cuff damage etc). Whilst recognised in other countries, is not recognised over here therefore many of us are struggling to get referrals and a proper diagnosis. I was only able to get an ultrasound after complaining about the vaccine centre to my local CCG.
There are many developments happening with SIRVA now, with results of recent scientific studies being published in the last couple of months. Whilst not all the above links are peer reviewed, some are and many are scientific studies. The covid vaccination programme is the largest mass programme we’ve ever seen so naturally more people are going experience SIRVA. This thread is a fraction of the number that have come forward online, and of these in the UK it seems only 3 or 4 so far have had an official SIRVA diagnosis. We are fighting because our experiences are being ignored and the issue is wholly preventable - with more comprehensive training. The medical community generally accepts that SIRVA exists - yet most vaccinators have never been informed of it. Some of us can’t dress ourselves, are unable to work, can’t wash our hair, can’t hold our children and are in permanent pain. I’d have thought more compassion ought to be employed on a disability forum that is here to support people.
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@Username_removed I included the background to explain that this is the first time in history that significant numbers of people are experiencing it, due to the sheer scale of covid vaccinations administered. Therefore the links above are quite literally the only references available when researching. There aren’t links to a wealth of scientific journals above - because this is a relatively new phenomenon.The above sufferers have recently received a vaccine and developed symptoms (many with no prior shoulder issues at all), so obviously we are going to conclude the damage is as a result of the vaccine. Those of us that are starting to get referred for ultrasounds and MRIs (that have shown damage) are proof of this.I was patronising because you implied we have simply googled key words. The reality is many have probably spent significant time scouring the internet, feeling down about the fact there isn’t a lot out there yet. I wasn’t writing a thesis - I was sharing all the mentions I’d come across thus far that didn’t require a paid subscription, in an attempt to be helpful.0
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My research suggests it isn't the vaccine itself that is causing the problem but the way it is administered, missing the muscle and being injected into a bursa, tendon or other area of the shoulder. More importantly, research shows that a vaccine administered into the shoulder joint will be inneffective.2
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I posted links to University of Waterloo, Harvard, National Library of Medicine, and other highly reputable peer-reviewed journals in order to share such knowledge. If MikeHughescq does not want to acknowledge these sources as being scientific enough, then perhaps a patronizing lecture is deserved. Everything I've related to others on this site is true in both a personal and professional capacity. While we can't share pain the pain we experience from SIRVA, I can assure Username_removed that empirical knowledge of SIRVA exists. Whether you seek to enlighten yourself of its prevelance is entirely up to you. As for myself, 10AM today I received my second dose in my thigh by a veteran nurse (ZERO negative effects). At 12PM I received a scheduled call from Canadian vaccine support program staff; in the conversation I asked how many cases they've had to account for, and was told that is private information. Essentially, you're wrong on two counts: that you have an idea how many people are negatively and long-term affected by vaccine administrations, and that "non-peer reviewed or replicated reports; from private companies with vested interests and worse" are all we have to inform ourselves and others of what we are going through/dealing with.0
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https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=sirva
22 results for keyword SIRVA inside National Library of Medicine is more than enough to clue into the fact that SIRVA exists, that SIRVA is real. My GP of 17 years diagnosed my shoulder injury as "Acute Bursitis as result of vaccine administration". I'll take his word and those of PhD's, professors of medicine, even medical students over the subjective opinion of someone I'll never meet and has nothing relevant or positive to help those who are seeking each others help. The point of a needle hitting the intricate tissue, nerves, ligaments and muscles as a result of poor landmarking doesn't need a scientist to authenticate the veracity of its causation or cure. A 100% preventable injury (one given by those who are trained to inject vaccines) shouldn't exist at all, IMO, but it does. Your point, if you're attempting to make one, seems as round and soft as any shoulder that hasn't been subject to improper administration.0 -
https://forum.scope.org.uk/profile/mikehughescq Do your own homework.0
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@Username_removed are you attempting to put yourself forward as researcher to support those of us in pain? If so - please jump in and share your own research. All help welcome.Again, if you are not in pain or struggling with SIRVA, I’m unsure as to why others trying to make some sense of their condition (with what is actually available at this point) is so infuriating for you? I’m sure your energy could be much better invested elsewhere. Given that your presence on this thread is seemingly just to pick apart the method in which we are trying to seek explanations, I’m presuming you aren’t suffering with SIRVA (I suspect you’d demonstrate a degree of empathy if you were). If you aren’t on this particular thread to support or help - please leave us be.5
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