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Does anyone have any experience with Shoulder Injury Relating to Vaccine Administration (SIRVA)?
Comments
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Hi @corrie59 - & welcome to the community. I'm sorry to read you have suffered following incorrect administration of the vaccine. I don't know if you've had a look at the link to posts about this that Ross has given. If not, you might find the following helpful that I posted there.'By way of explanation I'm a (long retired) physio. This is an exercise I found effective in patients with a frozen shoulder, i.e. with limited movement & pain. I also used it following damage to my own shoulder, & when twice I had a partially frozen shoulder.Try this as a first gentle exercise. Stand & put the foot of your unaffected side slightly forwards so you have a comfortable base. Lean forwards, letting your affected arm hang. Now swing your arm backwards & forwards within your pain-free arc. Do this gently for a couple of minutes. Next try moving your hand in a comfortable circle first one way, then the other. Gravity thus helps aid movement, & you can increase the range as you progress, always moving your shoulder within your pain-free arc. Don't push through the pain as this just increases the pain cycle. Try this a little & often throughout your day.'
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Thanks but the bursa is inflamed and awaiting steroids to bathe or remove.. I am unable to move my arm or shoulder as the pain is excruciating. Thank you though, I will use the techniques when the bursa is treated.
thanks Luc x -
I'm in Vancouver, Canada, where I'm in talks with Health Canada and Vancouver Coastal Health. Not only does my own GP recommend my second shot in my thigh, but so does the provincial representative I spoke with on the phone yesterday. The high part of the shoulder has the bursa sack, a rotator cuff, the ulnar and median nerve. Had I been made aware that there was a 1/5000 chance I'd be injured you can bet I'd be put off. SIRVA is greatly underreported. Thank you, scope, for providing this website (Canada and USA would do well to offer similar).Cressida said:@Adrian_Scope this thread is very worrying to people who may be put off having their covid vaccinations. -
Hi @dubopp - welcome to what all I can say is this friendly & supportive community. I think we've all been on a steep learning curve about SIRVA, especially with relevance to the Covid-19 vaccine. I think it's all credit to the Scope community team that they've kept this thread open so members can share their experiences.I freely admit I knew nothing about SIRVA until this thread; I'm not sure anyone here did. Perhaps members initial concerns were that it might put people off getting their Covid-19 vaccines; thankfully all members suffering from SIRVA still said they would get their 2nd vaccine.I hope you find this forum open-minded, as do I, in particular with regards to this problem. It's fluid, & takes onboard members concerns, which are always appreciated even without validation (& some slightly older posts may not reflect Scope's community's current thoughts). There is of course as yet little info in the medical literature about SIRVA in relation to the Covid vaccine (I could only find one case reported), however, historically it has been known about with previous vaccines such as that for flu, & again solely due to unintentional injection of the vaccine into the subacromial-subdeltoid bursa (a sac like structure which reduces friction of the shoulder joint) rather than into the deltoid muscle.Yes, with the enormous push to vaccinate so many people, this is also most likely currently under reported with these vaccination programmes. For all of you, do report your problems, tho it's still likely to only occur in a very comparative minority. Doesn't help if you're one of those affected tho I'm sure. What must frustrate some of you is some Drs not taking it seriously/misdiagnosing etc.A couple of days ago I had a phone call asking about my experience with my 2 Covid vaccinations.....mentioned I was a physio (just letting everyone here know, as I always say, that I only worked as such a long time ago, tho have maintained an interest in many things medical, including research), so had done gravity-assisted exercises following my first vaccination as my shoulder had been a little painful: no problems with 2nd vaccination. Then went on to say I advised doing such exercises for those experiencing SIRVA on a disability website.....end of phone call. Disappointing isn't the word.
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This is the best I can do. Feel free to copy/paste/share in the UK and elsewhere. SIRVA is real. -
Hi everyone
I've had both my 'jabs' and have been suffering SIRVA since my first vaccination in February. Like others on here, I had physiotherapy for a few weeks but on my last visit the physio said she would write to my doctor suggesting that further investigations be done (MRI or Ultrasound scan) to determine exactly where the injury is so that more precise, appropriate treatment could be given. I had my second vaccination in my other arm and that has been fine.
I recently began to research SIRVA and found that it isn't uncommon, however, I also came across many research studies that said intramuscular vaccines injected into the shoulder joint/bursa/tendon etc., are ineffective. I have listed one of the articles below but there are others that state the same or similar.
The Lancet: February 06, 2021
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00192-6/fulltext
"the appropriate intramuscular site will be essential for ensuring efficacy of the vaccine, as placement in a bursa or joint will prevent immune system exposure"
On finding this I contacted my doctor to see if I could be re-jabbed but was told that it wasn't possible as this would be a third vaccination.
Because I am aware that my one effective vaccination will leave me unprotected in a few months, I then contacted my local MP about the matter, after all, I've followed all the rules during this time and yet, through no fault of my own, I am eventually going to be left unprotected because of someone else's error.
My MP forwarded my concerns to my local NHS Clinical Commissioning Group who responded:
" I have been advised by the senior clinician in Public Health that her first dose will have provided enough of a primer for her second dose to be effective." and "the vaccination trials included some lower doses and the evidence showed that a second dose still produced a good boost."However, I consider the above statement to be invalid in this matter as I have enough scientific background to understand that the vaccination trial results to which he refers are those where vaccinations were carried out correctly, into muscle tissue, and not elsewhere. Therefore, I am still concerned about the position I am in, where the current protection afforded me is gradually waning and if/when I became eligible for a 'booster," that booster would only serve as a first vaccination for me.
I sincerely apologise if anyone feels my post is too negative or worrying to have been put on this forum but I am genuinely concerned that there are many, many people in the same position as myself who believe they are as fully protected as possible when they may not actually be so.
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Hi @Hopefulone - & welcome to the community. We are always asked to use reputable sources, as you have done; few would argue with a link to the Lancet, so thank you for that. This is something I've wondered about as, after all, such vaccinations are meant to be intramuscular. At my last vaccination, & after reading the problems some have posted here about SIRVA, I started abducting my arm to make my deltoid muscle more apparent as the administrator seemed hesitant, yet was immediately told to relax my arm. After the administrator saying they needed to feel my shoulder joint, then seeming to measure down with their fingers, I felt apprehensive, but to be honest, then received a jab before I could have said anything. It was at least an inch higher than my first jab (which I felt perfectly comfortable with). It's not too hard to identify the deltoid muscle, so it's a sorry state of affairs if some vaccinations are incorrectly administered.I do appreciate your concern, & think I would have felt the same even before reading this article. It seems you have been fobbed off; I can't see how it could be necessarily presumed your case is similar to having had an initial lower dose (which were presumably correctly administered in the trials mentioned).As yet we perhaps don't know enough, & even if Drs keep up to date, they rely in part upon the medical literature. I had a somewhat similar problem after finding out about what I thought our family's genetic problem was, but it had to be associated with another disorder to make sense of it all. There was nothing in the medical literature, so I searched for similar genetic problems & found connections there. My way to 'persuade' Drs was to write a review of the medical literature referencing medical papers to back this up, then printing this out. I'm not saying it would work, but perhaps worth a try.
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18 Medical, University, and National instances that make note of SIRVA:
Tell Boris, Justin & Joe...
CFP
https://www.cfp.ca/content/cfp/65/1/40.full.pdf
Sage Journal
NIH (repeats below)
Sherilyn K. D. Houle, Kelly A. Grindrod, 2018
Shoulder injury related to vaccine administration and other injection site events
Health Mag
What Is SIRVA? What to Know About Shoulder Injury From Flu Shot | Health.com
UofWaterloo
Canada Gov
Adverse events following immunization in British Columbia - Canada.ca
Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoulder_injury_related_to_vaccine_administration
Wired
https://www.wired.com/2015/09/cases-shoulder-injuries-vaccines-increasing/
CureUs Med-Science Journal
National Institutes of Health
Harvard
UK Pharmaceutical Journal
Highlighting shoulder injury related to vaccine administration - The Pharmaceutical Journal
USAF and Oxford
Journal of Shoulder Surgery
US Government Human Resources
https://www.hrsa.gov/sites/default/files/vaccinecompensation/vaccineinjurytable.pdf
vaccineinjurytable.pdf
ISMP
ISMPCSB2021-i2-COVID19-Vaccine-Error-Prevention.pdf
Orthopaedic Surgeon
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Thank you Chiarieds and Dubopp for your comments and information. I don't intend to give up,. It has also been suggested that my next course of action should be to contact the media.
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Hi All,
Good Morning
I too would like to thank Chiarieds, Dubopp and everyone for their openness, comments and information. Some exceptionally good reading indeed! – Thank you!
After carrying out many hours of research, I am not too sure SIRVA is a widely recognised, accepted of even known affliction associated with the administration of a vaccine in the UK. However, like most people on here having experienced a frozen shoulder first-hand we as a group surely do recognise the adverse consequence this has on our well-being, everyday life and mindset.
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Hi all,
Thank you @chiarieds @dubopp and @Hopefulone for all the info. I'd be happy to go to the media although I do wonder how likely they would be to cover this given it could potentially put people off getting their Covid vaccine.
It's now been 4 months and unfortunately I've seen no improvement, it's more painful if anything - especially in mornings. I can't dress myself and trying to do anything other than sit still is painful. I'm so sorry that others are struggling, it is not fun!
I submitted a formal complaint to the surgery where I was vaccinated and directed it through my local CCG. It was actioned immediately, but I've now been told by 2 GPs and a clinical lead that the injury is definitely NOT related to the vaccine and that the needles being used are too short to cause any damage. I'm livid with this - it's evidently an attempt to fob me off and I know others are experiencing the same. I'm under the impression the inches used are 1" 23/25g which is certainly long enough to result in SIRVA. My complaint was not responded to in writing so I will be escalating this. I have thankfully been sent an ultrasound appointment so hopefully this will shed some light.
I've included some more links just in case anyone wants to to do any further research.https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736%2821%2900192-6
https://www.jabfm.org/content/jabfp/25/6/919.full.pdf
https://institutionalrepository.aah.org/radio/2/
https://europepmc.org/article/pmc/pmc7906721
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.4161/hv.27232
https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/948294
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00256-021-03803-x
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Hi
I had my second AZ vaccination end of May and initially felt a little bruised in that area and discomfort when dressing but, after reading up on side affects, found this to be normal and that it was a good sign.. that the vaccine was working. Now, nearly seven weeks later, the pain in my arm and shoulder is excruciating especially in the morning and for the last couple of days I’m waking with pins and needles in my hand. So glad to have found this link and others experiencing the same symptoms as all I could find before was ‘CovidArm’ cases.. mine isn’t THAT.. there’s no external signs of redness but this internal pain in the shoulder/top of the arm is worsening. I’m seeing a doctor today and will update. -
Hi @ali57 and welcome to the community! I'm sorry that you've experienced this too, but I'm glad you are seeing your GP today Disability Gamechanger - 2019
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Hi @ali57 Did you mean for your comment to be posted on the thread about SIRVA? I can move it there if so.
I'm sorry to hear that you've been experiencing pain in your shoulder, and hope that your doctor can get to the bottom of it and put together a treatment plan for you. -
Hi yes sorry.. just getting to grips on this feed! ??♀️?
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No problem @ali57 I'll move all of this over to that thread.
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Hi @Username_removed - I presume you’re not suffering from SIRVA? If you are, I’m very sorry and if you’re not I’m a little unsure as to why others discussing their suffering is such an issue for you. Please see my thoughts below.
SIRVA is an umbrella term for an injury caused by improper administration (ie. bursitis, rotator cuff damage etc). Whilst recognised in other countries, is not recognised over here therefore many of us are struggling to get referrals and a proper diagnosis. I was only able to get an ultrasound after complaining about the vaccine centre to my local CCG.
There are many developments happening with SIRVA now, with results of recent scientific studies being published in the last couple of months. Whilst not all the above links are peer reviewed, some are and many are scientific studies. The covid vaccination programme is the largest mass programme we’ve ever seen so naturally more people are going experience SIRVA. This thread is a fraction of the number that have come forward online, and of these in the UK it seems only 3 or 4 so far have had an official SIRVA diagnosis. We are fighting because our experiences are being ignored and the issue is wholly preventable - with more comprehensive training. The medical community generally accepts that SIRVA exists - yet most vaccinators have never been informed of it. Some of us can’t dress ourselves, are unable to work, can’t wash our hair, can’t hold our children and are in permanent pain. I’d have thought more compassion ought to be employed on a disability forum that is here to support people.
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AmyS1992 Well Said! I totally concur with everything you have written. There is a similar thread on this forum with many others whom are suffering too. Take care, Stay Safe and Well. Mike.AmyS1992 said:Hi @Username_removed - I presume you’re not suffering from SIRVA? If you are, I’m very sorry and if you’re not I’m a little unsure as to why others discussing their suffering is such an issue for you. Please see my thoughts below.
SIRVA is an umbrella term for an injury caused by improper administration (ie. bursitis, rotator cuff damage etc). Whilst recognised in other countries, is not recognised over here therefore many of us are struggling to get referrals and a proper diagnosis. I was only able to get an ultrasound after complaining about the vaccine centre to my local CCG.
There are many developments happening with SIRVA now, with results of recent scientific studies being published in the last couple of months. Whilst not all the above links are peer reviewed, some are and many are scientific studies. The covid vaccination programme is the largest mass programme we’ve ever seen so naturally more people are going experience SIRVA. This thread is a fraction of the number that have come forward online, and of these in the UK it seems only 3 or 4 so far have had an official SIRVA diagnosis. We are fighting because our experiences are being ignored and the issue is wholly preventable - with more comprehensive training. The medical community generally accepts that SIRVA exists - yet most vaccinators have never been informed of it. Some of us can’t dress ourselves, are unable to work, can’t wash our hair, can’t hold our children and are in permanent pain. I’d have thought more compassion ought to be employed on a disability forum that is here to support people.
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@Username_removed I included the background to explain that this is the first time in history that significant numbers of people are experiencing it, due to the sheer scale of covid vaccinations administered. Therefore the links above are quite literally the only references available when researching. There aren’t links to a wealth of scientific journals above - because this is a relatively new phenomenon.The above sufferers have recently received a vaccine and developed symptoms (many with no prior shoulder issues at all), so obviously we are going to conclude the damage is as a result of the vaccine. Those of us that are starting to get referred for ultrasounds and MRIs (that have shown damage) are proof of this.I was patronising because you implied we have simply googled key words. The reality is many have probably spent significant time scouring the internet, feeling down about the fact there isn’t a lot out there yet. I wasn’t writing a thesis - I was sharing all the mentions I’d come across thus far that didn’t require a paid subscription, in an attempt to be helpful.
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My research suggests it isn't the vaccine itself that is causing the problem but the way it is administered, missing the muscle and being injected into a bursa, tendon or other area of the shoulder. More importantly, research shows that a vaccine administered into the shoulder joint will be inneffective.
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