Scopes reaction to the green paper.
Comments
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Not a silly question at all.
And the answer is YES they can. And probably will.I have no doubt that by the time these new changes make legislation they will watered down significantly, if they are changed at all.
This is by far over.
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Dear Scope Community , @Albus_Scope has shared an important consultation document but just to warn you , it requires a lot of mental focus to get it completed thoroughly with all your points in depth . It’s got 20 questions of which 17 questions require comprehensive answers if you need to get your points through . It maybe best to first copy the questions in a word document or whatever you prefer(like blank email draft)and then copy and paste. This will ensure you get all your points across and don’t lose the office forms page . You can also then take a break and complete in your own time. To do you all a favour, I thought to list the questions here so that you can complete in your own time with a break and also seek help from friends/family. Please ensure to get your points across as this is our opportunity to do so after a long wait. Here are the questions (TIP :read the PATHWAYS TO WORK green paper first , makes it easier to gather your points/arguments):
Pathways to Work: Reforming Benefits and Support to Get Britain Working
Chapter 2: Reforming the structure of the health and disability benefits system
1.What further steps could the Department for Work and Pensions take to make sure the benefit system supports people to try work without the worry that it may affect their benefit entitlement?
2. What support do you think we could provide for those who will lose their Personal Independence Payment entitlement as a result of a new additional requirement to score at least four points on one daily living activity?
3. How could we improve the experience of the health and care system for people who are claiming Personal Independence Payment who would lose entitlement?
4. How could we introduce a new Unemployment Insurance, how long should it last for and what support should be provided during this time to support people to adjust to changes in their life and get back into work?
5. What practical steps could we take to improve our current approach to safeguarding people who use our services?
Chapter 3: Supporting people to thrive
6. How should the support conversation be designed and delivered so that it is welcomed by individuals and is effective?
7.How should we design and deliver conversations to people who currently receive no or little contact, so that they are most effective?
8. How we should determine who is subject to a requirement only to participate in conversations, or work preparation activity rather than the stronger requirements placed on people in the Intensive Work Search regime?
9. Should we require most people to participate in a support conversation as a condition of receipt of their full benefit award or of the health element in Universal Credit?
10.How should we determine which individuals or groups of individuals should be exempt from requirements? 11. Should we delay access to the health element of Universal Credit within the reformed system until someone is aged 22?
12.Do you think 18 is the right age for young people to start claiming the adult disability benefit, Personal Independence Payment? If not, what age do you think it should be? CHAPTER 4: Supporting employers and making work accessible
13.How can we support and ensure employers, including Small and Medium Sized Enterprises, to know what workplace adjustments they can make to help employees with a disability or health condition?
14.What should DWP directly fund for both employers and individuals to maximise the impact of a future Access to Work and reach as many people as possible?15. What do you think the future role and design of Access to Work should be?16. How can we better define and utilise the various roles of Access to Work, the Health and Safety Executive, Advisory, Conciliation and Arbitration Service and the Equalities and Human Rights Commission to achieve a cultural shift in employer awareness and action on workplace adjustments?
17. What should be the future delivery model for the future of Access to Work? OTHER:(These are just selective one word answers easy to click)
18. Which of the following best describes how you are responding to this consultation. Are you responding:
19.Do you consider yourself to have a health condition or a disability?
20. Do you live in:Best Wishes
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are there any MP’s on your forum? If they were, they would’ve resigned their posts by now . There’s so much anxieties and cries for help , including mine … it’s got so exhausting to get to this point. I couldn’t even get the words out to fill in the consultation document which Albus shared , but it ought to be done whether a tick box exercise govt stunt or if truly they’d listen .
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Great thinking @Nat_88 . This govt seems relentless and unless we grow as a mighty power and have a strong legal case , I don’t think there’s any challenging worth against these guys . BTW, have you got your points across in the consultation doc, Albus shared . That might be an opportunity for a start? Thanks
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This is from the Benefits and Work site
DWP launches entirely bogus Green Paper consultation
Published: 18 March 2025
The DWP has launched an entirely bogus consultation on changes to personal independence payment (PIP) and universal credit (UC) by refusing to consult on almost everything that matters most to claimants.
The Pathways to Work: Reforming Benefits and Support to Get Britain Working Green Paper sets out proposed changes to PIP, including preventing anyone who does not score at least one 4 point or more descriptor from being eligible for the daily living component.
It also proposes to freeze the LCWRA (health) element of UC and abolish the WCA.
Non-consultation
Yet the list of things that the DWP is refusing to consult on, meaning there are no questions about them in the online consultation, includes:
- Scrapping the WCA
- Creating a single assessment for PIP and the UC health element
- Freezing the health element of UC until 2029/30
- Only awarding PIP daily living if you get at least one descriptor scoring 4 or more points
- Restarting WCA reassessments until the WCA is scrapped
(You can find a full list of the issues the DWP will and won’t be consulting on at Annex A of the Green Paper).
Leading questions
Instead of asking for feedback on these vital issues, the consultation asks questions that make the assumption that participants accept that people should lose their PIP:
2. What support do you think we could provide for those who will lose their Personal Independence Payment entitlement as a result of a new additional requirement to score at least 4 points on one daily living activity?
3. How could we improve the experience of the health and care system for people who are claiming Personal Independence Payment who would lose entitlement?
Missing information
Vital information that would allow people to have an informed opinion even on questions like those above has been deliberately withheld from the Green Paper.
For example, the DWP knows precisely, or could make a very accurate estimate of, how many current claimants would lose their award on review if their condition remains unchanged and the new system is introduced.
It also knows what condition those claimants have: how many have physical conditions like arthritis, mental health conditions like anxiety and depression, neurodevelopmental issues like ASD or ADHD.
The DWP knows, but it’s not telling us.
Yet how can you properly answer questions like the ones above if you don’t know who is most likely to be affected?
Benefits and Work has made a Freedom of Information request for these figures, but we suspect they will not be forthcoming.
The information may be included in the impact assessment due to be published on 26th March.
Otherwise, perhaps readers could ask their MPs or a friendly member of the House of Lords to ask for them?
Judicial review
In January of this year, the High Court found that a Conservative consultation on changes to the work capability assessment (WCA) was unlawful, meaning that the changes could not go ahead.
The judge held that the DWP had: failed to adequately explain the proposals; had failed to explain that the main purpose was to save money rather than to get claimants into work; had failed to provide sufficient time for the consultation.
At the time, many of us thought that this meant that the DWP under Labour would have to carry out an honest consultation on changes to PIP and UC.
Instead, the lesson that the DWP has learnt is not that it should be honest, but instead that it should just not consult on anything meaningful at all.
According to the House of Commons Library:
“In some cases, public bodies have a legal duty to carry out a consultation. There will be legal duty to consult where:
- there is legislation which requires a consultation
- a government department or public body has promised to consult
- there is an established practice of consultation in similar cases
- not consulting would lead to obvious unfairness (in exceptional cases)”
We would argue that there is a very definite ”established practice of consultation” in relation to major changes to disability and incapacity benefits and that the current exercise is an attempt to pass off a fake consultation as the real thing.
It was the Public Law Project which won the case against the DWP over the WCA consultation. We very much hope that they will be able launch a similar judicial review over this Green Paper consultation.
Alternative consultation
In the meantime, we hope that a major charity or umbrella body with good standing amongst the public and MPs, such as the Disability Benefits Consortium, will launch an alternative consultation.
It doesn’t need to be long or complicated. It just needs to ask the questions that the DWP is scared to ask, such as:
Do you agree that only people who score at least 4 points on one daily living activity should get an award of the PIP daily living component?
Do you agree that the WCA should be abolished and replaced with a single assessment for both PIP and the UC health element?
Whatever the results, they could be circulated to MPs and members of the House of Lords who wish to be properly informed before they vote on these issues.
Silencing voices
The Green paper consultation is so dishonest that we feel unable to recommend that people take part in the way we normally would, though we also know that the DWP may argue that lack of response means that most people do not object to the changes.
In the Green paper, the DWP claim that “We are committed to putting the views and voices of disabled people and people with health conditions at the heart of everything we do.”
In fact, this bogus consultation is entirely about silencing the voices of disabled people and people with health conditions.
The reality is that the DWP under Labour is proving to be even more dishonest and devious than it was under the Tories.
The Green Paper consultation is online here or you can read all the questions in the consultation here.
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Do u really think it won't be that bad?
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Yes. I don’t believe all of these will make legislation at all.
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How would someone like myself for at the jobcentre when I seriously self harm and feel suicidal at the thought with no wca how are we protected, 🤔
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Yes there is.
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That's why I will not fill it out.
We need an independent petition that has our interests at heart.
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I will never vote for them again. Burn my fingers like this don't think so!
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Many of us could not get to Westminster to protest and they know this.
BUT
We can flood their system with PIP claims as a protest.
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I read how lrwca will be frozen and wca abolished by 2028 and that the assesments will be in line with pip and very difficult to get. So far all the comments pertain to people already getting lrwca, pip, ESA or new claims. I haven't found any info on anyway who has already just started the process and still in early stages of obtaining a WCA.
I am awaiting UC50 form which in theory would have been activated today (day 29 of first Fit Note) and yet to supply 2 more Fit Notes. What criteria will my WCA be when I finally get it? (however long I will have to wait for my assesment) And will I get a reduced Lrwca rate or something else if eligible?. I haven't applied for pip yet as I wanted to get wca out of the way first but that may not apply to new claims. I am 63, unemployed, long-term ill health with new conditions but I have always worked until recently so I am currently on basic universal credit (job seekers).
Please can anyone advise? I have asked a few times in recent days but I haven't received an answer as yet.
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This Labour government is never ever going to get votes from the whatever million disabled community ever again, definitely not from me. I truly cannot wait for this government to be overthrown out of office . Wish their policies do not even pass stage 1 of negotiations.
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The current WCA (criteria) and rates would apply to your claim, provided you pass and get decision before they legislate their so-called reform. I believe you've got plenty of time to be called for an assessment and get a decision before they implement their evil proposal.
Hope this helps.
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Can someone explain the actual proposals to me? I'm not really understanding what's changing. Are they proposing "you need to have PIP to get LCWRA", or is it something different?
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Hi I am terrified. I am on contributions based ESA and in the Support Group and on Adult Disability Payment (the Scottish version of PIP). These benefits are my only income. The announcement today left me scared I will be forced onto a new Unemployment Insurance where it will be time limited and where I will have to look for work. Are Labour scrapping the Support Group or is the new hybrid benefit only for new claimants. I have written to my MP
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I agree, absolutely no way is most that making it to the finishing line
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Read the below without worrying to much as theres a big BUT at the end :)
To answer your question basically yes but not so simple!
If the PIP point change proposal gets brought in it will mean this:-
PIP claimants will have to get at least 4 points on any one descriptor in the Daily Living activity to be able to claim the Daily Living component of PIP.
PIP Mobility criteria will not change and will not affect LCWRA claims.
LCWRA can only be claimed if the person is on Daily Living PIP
So basically to get PIP Daily Living Award and LCWRA payment you will have to get 4 points on any one descriptor in the Daily Living activity, this will also automatically entitle you to LCWRA. 2 points on one descriptor + 2 points on another descriptor will NOT count. If you fail to get 4 points on one descriptor you stand to lose not only your PIP Daily Living award but also LCWRA payment. They said they are looking at ways to possible help those affected by this change such as transitional protection but no one not even Labour know what this will mean yet.
BUT and this is a massive BUT, from what many with more knowledge than me have been saying these changes could take years to implement and there is a possiblity it wont even happen. The Green Paper itself mentions that the government will legislate this to be introduced in November 2026 but before that date there will be multiple charities and organisations including MP's against this trying to either get it stopped or watered down and more than likely court challenges could occur taking even more time to bring these changes in. Could it still happen? Yes, but again dont worry to much as this one change is going to cause so much harm it will almost certainly be changed in some way, in my opinion and many others.
I hope this helps and if I've got anything wrong I'm sure someone will explain it for you.4 -
Ok, thank you.
I've got several 4s so hopefully that's ok for me but yeah, that's a real **** move, hopefully people are going to block it.
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