Green Paper Related Discussions

Hi Catherine

Are you confident now that we will win this, with the numbers ?

Even if Reform were to vote in favour of cuts they would still be defeated.

✅ In favour of welfare changes:

• Labour loyalists: 412 - 170 = 242
• Reform UK: 5

➡ Total in favour: 242 + 5 = 247 MPs

🧮 Final Tally:

• For: 247
• Against/Abstain: ~390

🔴 Result: Welfare changes would still fail.

I read that but what I find confusing is in the article it says they’re voting against it as it’s not going far enough, yet I’m sure I heard the Tory’s said it was cruel . Mind you it’s the sun so maybe they added their little bit to it .

What I would like to know is what can happen out of the two out comes ?
It gets rejected ?

What is the next step for the government will they try again?

or it passes ?

Would there be legal challenges ?

Exactly what I think . IMO it doesn’t matter what was put in place by previous PMs or who’s behind starmer . He’s PM the buck stops with him . The only moral crusade he has is one against the disabled. How are cuts needed to bring the welfare bill down when there’s no mention of getting the fit job seekers work and they’re thinking of scrapping the two child limit and reinstating the WFA ( which I agree with) which cancels out any savings from pip cuts .

Hi Squirrel 🐿️

I was really wiped out but at least I don't wake up in pain. It's really sad that you have to put up with fibromyalgia too. 😞

I'm also sad to hear that you are amongst the few with the enhanced DL rate who doesn't have 4 points in any one question. You have such a high level of needs and therefore deserve a high level of support, not to have it all taken off you completely. 😤

I do hope that this situation will improve for you, hopefully by a lot and for the sake of the rest of us who are going to lose out too.
I think that MPs have come to understand a great deal about our situation as there has been such a huge outcry by us, our DPOs, charities etc.

I don't think that the Labour leadership expected this much opposition, in such a short time which has caused MPs to have become a lot more aware of how the impact of the cuts will affect us before the vote.

Ministers were obviously hoping it would not be until afterwards, long afterwards as it will take another 4 months to get all the impact assessments together for MPs to see.

I believe that we can have more confidence in MPs than you think. 😊

As for Kendall and Co, I think we can expect every sort of skullduggery from them.

I'm only speculating but I do think that if they push up one lot of scoring for standard rate, in their mind, I don't think that they would settle at having one rate, they would want to put up the points for the enhanced rate too.

I think that they want to try to trick MPs into accepting a different scenario for us that sounds better to begin with but will end up being just as devastating for us in reality.

MPs look to be onto them them though, with refusing to deal with the leaderships "tweaks." as they call them. I think that the MPs know that ministers are trying to pull the wool over their eyes and are trying to push the vote through too quickly.

That's why they are trying to get them to slow down so MPs can consider these cuts properly and they insist that we must get a proper say on all points of the proposals.

I've realised myself that just because large numbers of MPs are abstaining on the vote, instead of voting against, it doesn't mean that this isn't a major government revolt against the leadership and a great threat to Labour party unity. It is, which surprised me too!

You're right in saying this really isn't about the small amount of money that is needed for us out of this country's vast budget every year. Right wing MPs seem obsessed with doing everything they possibly can large corporations, banks and businesses making obscene amounts of money and looking after the interests of the already rich.

This is powered by having as many people as possible working to make them as much profit as possible, at any one time.

This is why we are suffering, as the elderly (WFA) and children (Child Benefit Cap) are having to do, quite unnecessarily. 😡 If you cannot work, or are too young, or old to work then you are considered an expendable burden. Which is appalling, I know. 😞

That's also why there is no regard for the fact that most of us have worked in the past, the elderly have done so too, or that children are the workers of the future.

Because of this pathological hated, and the fact that we are an obstacle to their parliamentary ambitions too, especially in the case of Starmer and Co, is why we all believe that they are trying to ruin our lives by removing our vital support.

I would say that I think that their ideological hatred of us definitely outstrips whether they will save any money or not. They will know, as well as we do that it will cost the country a lot more to improverish us than it will save in the long run, so I would say that this is about their indefensible, ideology driven attitude and political maneuvering not money.

As Timms has so disgracefully shown us in the last few days. 😡 He should be careful, his actions are not matching his words, demonstrating what their opinion really is of us.