PIP, DLA and AA
If this is your first visit, check out the community guide. You will have to Join us or Sign in before you can post.
Want to give us your opinion? Complete our annual survey.

PiP shutting people down

GamerGirl37GamerGirl37 Member Posts: 94 Pioneering
Apparently the people who make the decisions get paid $50 for turning patients down first time..... what the hell for those with no job no means of getting help and trying everything in their power to get a job they can handle.... 

Replies

  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,267 Disability Gamechanger
    @GameGirl37, hello and welcome, that's a false statement, and PIP is no a benefit for the unemployed but for those who have a health problem, disability and PIP when awarded to an able-bodied person who meets the criteria for claiming PIP can  still claim PIP and work full time. The claiment may have a mobility issue, problem and unable to walk far but through claiming PIP is able to attend work earn a living and pay his or hers taxes and NI. 
  • GamerGirl37GamerGirl37 Member Posts: 94 Pioneering
    Ano , I just hate how they treat people who really need the help 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    No one receives any extra money for claimants being refused PIP. It's the DWP decision makers that make the decisions.

    Lots of people successfully claim PIP without any problems at al but we rarely hear the good stories.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • GamerGirl37GamerGirl37 Member Posts: 94 Pioneering
    I can’t I can’t understand why that is though all people classed as disabled should receive PIP with no questions asked 
  • GamerGirl37GamerGirl37 Member Posts: 94 Pioneering
    That’s stupid 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    That’s stupid 
    Why is it stupid? You can't expect to be awarded a disability benefit just for a disability because not everyone with a disability needs help and support. If you don't meet the criteria then you won't score the points for an award.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • GamerGirl37GamerGirl37 Member Posts: 94 Pioneering
    I’m not saying that but when people struggle with making food unsupervised and not being able to manage bills or getting lost without someone there to guide them.... they should be allowed it , I’ve just turned 27 and I still live with my parents and fiancée I had to leave my previous job because my diagnosis was too late 
  • WhileIBreathIHopeWhileIBreathIHope Member [under moderation] Posts: 216 Member [under moderation]
    No one receives any extra money for claimants being refused PIP. It's the DWP decision makers that make the decisions.

    Lots of people successfully claim PIP without any problems at al but we rarely hear the good stories.
    Really so two Dodgy companies for profit know better than NHS! 
    Lima banned in US states but used here
    UN report and in the news. 
    What a bubble you must live in!
  • WhileIBreathIHopeWhileIBreathIHope Member [under moderation] Posts: 216 Member [under moderation]
    No one receives any extra money for claimants being refused PIP. It's the DWP decision makers that make the decisions.

    Lots of people successfully claim PIP without any problems at al but we rarely hear the good stories.
    Really so two Dodgy companies for profit know better than NHS! 
    Lima banned in US states but used here
    UN report and in the news. 
    What a bubble you must live in!
    I do not live in any sort of bubble but i'll thank you for your extremely generous well thought out comment.

    As a community champion here on scope i think i know the criteria for claiming PIP and ESA but thanks again.

    Enjoy the rest of your night!


    Sweetly I got screwed by Direct Payments and DWP, left with nothing and housebound- even the MP couldn’t unravel the mess completely. So while you wear your shiny community champion badge with honour- kindly and respectfully realise you don’t know it all/ can’t fix it all 
  • WhileIBreathIHopeWhileIBreathIHope Member [under moderation] Posts: 216 Member [under moderation]
    edited October 2019
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    edited October 2019
    That’s stupid 
    Why is it stupid? You can't expect to be awarded a disability benefit just for a disability because not everyone with a disability needs help and support. If you don't meet the criteria then you won't score the points for an award.
    I tend to agree - my daughter has epilepsy but fortunately it has minimal impact so she doesn't qualify for benefit.

    The budget isn't limitless - If she got PIP it might mean that a more deserving case didn't.
  • GamerGirl37GamerGirl37 Member Posts: 94 Pioneering
    yes if you don’t meet the criteria however when you have a diagnosis that proves you cannot do certain things due to your disability , you should be able to get PIP with no hassle , on the final decision I had they scored me nothing for both life skills and mobility - mobility is fair enough but life skills is a load of bull / and my diagnose says that and on my report when I had my meeting to discuss it she wrote it all down - but to receive a letter from the DWP saying I’m able to do all the things and their is no evidence of any learning impairment , sensory issues and they used the companion thing against me saying I seemed calm and not struggling to speak - only cause I had my mother there which they said was allowed ..... 
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    "yes if you don’t meet the criteria however when you have a diagnosis that proves you cannot do certain things due to your disability , you should be able to get PIP with no hassle"

    @gamergirl37 - does a diagnosis prove that you cannot do certain things? I don't believe that it does, which is why PIP is about functionality not diagnosis (and it's far from perfect I agree)

    Would you say that my daughter qualifies? She has been diagnosed with epilepsy but it has almost no effect. She works full time, and is allowed by DVLA to drive...
  • GamerGirl37GamerGirl37 Member Posts: 94 Pioneering
    Yes in a way it does , as it states in my diagnosis I will not be able to do ect , and they have just walked all over the evidence so far , I’m still waiting to hear from my case worker the second time 
  • GamerGirl37GamerGirl37 Member Posts: 94 Pioneering
    I didn’t know that wow ....
  • MisscleoMisscleo Member Posts: 646 Pioneering
    Thank you to ALL who posted .....interesting 
  • WhileIBreathIHopeWhileIBreathIHope Member [under moderation] Posts: 216 Member [under moderation]
    dolfrog said:
    braca said:
    @GamerGirl37 Keep up the fight and as you say evidence you have shows that it can and  affects yourself coping with daily living activities.

    HCP probably did not look at your evidence thoroughly and would have filled in their report to suit, I do not believe they are paid a bonus but are tasked with getting through X amount of assessments per day and are very well paid for doing so, I think they are more concerned more about their report being picked up for audit and not being sent to DWP straight away.

    As for Decision Makers I was told by two Welfare Rights officers that they only look at the Dots for scoring points and don't even bother reading full report from Assessment providers...

    Basically neither the Assessor nor the Decision Makers are adequately medically trained or qualified to do their jobs, such is the corrupt nature of this DWP system.

    watch out your get flagged for spam having an anti dwp opinion
  • WhileIBreathIHopeWhileIBreathIHope Member [under moderation] Posts: 216 Member [under moderation]
    ilovecats said:
    Apparently the people who make the decisions get paid $50 for turning patients down first time..... what the hell for those with no job no means of getting help and trying everything in their power to get a job they can handle.... 
    Not true. At all. Not in the slightest. It makes ZERO difference to the assessor if they do or do not award it someone. In actual fact, it is less work and is easier to award someone than it is to say they don’t fit the criteria.
    seen works of fiction for reports, Atos lima banned in various USA states-yet used by dwp
  • Sam_AlumniSam_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,731 Disability Gamechanger

    Scope's online community is for anyone with an interest in disability. We hope it will be a useful place to share information and ideas.

    The community is not intended as a source of professional or medical advice and support. The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect Scope's opinions.

    Keep it friendly

    We want the community to be a safe and supportive place. Please make sure your messages respect other users’ views and suggestions, even if you do not agree with them.

    Take care to present your views tactfully and remember that humour may be misinterpreted.

    Keep it safe

    Please be careful about sharing information:

    • Always check that information you get is correct and appropriate.
    • Do not present opinions as facts.
    You can read more of the guidelines here.
    Scope
    Senior online community officer
  • WhileIBreathIHopeWhileIBreathIHope Member [under moderation] Posts: 216 Member [under moderation]
    My personal opinion as endorsed by ME 
    is the current DWP practices will one day be found to be illegal, while austerity will be the excuse to normalise criminal behaviour.

  • dolfrogdolfrog Member Posts: 440 Pioneering
    Sam_Scope said:

    Scope's online community is for anyone with an interest in disability. We hope it will be a useful place to share information and ideas.

    The community is not intended as a source of professional or medical advice and support. The opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect Scope's opinions.

    Keep it friendly

    We want the community to be a safe and supportive place. Please make sure your messages respect other users’ views and suggestions, even if you do not agree with them.

    Take care to present your views tactfully and remember that humour may be misinterpreted.

    Keep it safe

    Please be careful about sharing information:

    • Always check that information you get is correct and appropriate.
    • Do not present opinions as facts.
    You can read more of the guidelines here.
    Unfortunately there are some who do not wish to help explain soem  of the complex issues that many disabilities may have and help explain some of these issues in relation to how best to claim the various UK disability benefits in a system set up to limit the amount of benefits the government should have to pay out. to provide the support many may need. 
    So if the system sets up its own so called descriptors , a technicial term not many fully understand, Scope should be helping to explain these defintitions in lay mans terms dot that those who have a disability are better able to understand and explain the problems they may face on a day to day basis. 
    Some just use the term discriptors and avoid discussing and explaining the real issues, and how thye should be best describe to help those of us who have varying types of disability get the support we need.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    edited November 2019
    @dolfrog - don't worry too much about the terminology...

    What the DWP need to know is whether you can carry out different 'tasks', whether you need aids, or help/supervision or whether you can't do them at all.

    Use your own words to describe what you can/ can't do; adding some examples is a good idea.

    For example, for PIP, Activity 4 is:-

    This activity considers a claimant’s ability to wash and bathe.

    ‘Washing’ means cleaning ones whole body, including removing dirt and sweat.

    ‘Bathing’ means getting into and out of both an unadapted bath and an unadapted shower.

    So, if you can't get in/out of the bath AND shower and wash yourself explain why, and how you manage.

    Do this for each of the activities that you have difficulty with ...

    Hope this helps ...

    If it doesn't help message me ...
  • GamerGirl37GamerGirl37 Member Posts: 94 Pioneering
    even with needing help of supervision they will turn is against you 
  • GamerGirl37GamerGirl37 Member Posts: 94 Pioneering
    I have the proof
  • mrbuttonsmrbuttons Member Posts: 221 Pioneering
    Apparently the people who make the decisions get paid $50 for turning patients down first time..... what the hell for those with no job no means of getting help and trying everything in their power to get a job they can handle.... 
    why would they be paid in dollars or was it a typo?


  • dolfrogdolfrog Member Posts: 440 Pioneering
    cristobal said:
    @dolfrog - don't worry too much about the terminology...

    What the DWP need to know is whether you can carry out different 'tasks', whether you need aids, or help/supervision or whether you can't do them at all.

    Use your own words to describe what you can/ can't do; adding some examples is a good idea.

    For example, for PIP, Activity 4 is:-

    This activity considers a claimant’s ability to wash and bathe.

    ‘Washing’ means cleaning ones whole body, including removing dirt and sweat.

    ‘Bathing’ means getting into and out of both an unadapted bath and an unadapted shower.

    So, if you can't get in/out of the bath AND shower and wash yourself explain why, and how you manage.

    Do this for each of the activities that you have difficulty with ...

    Hope this helps ...

    If it doesn't help message me ...
    Hi @cristobal
    due to my communication disability, which I share with all of my family, 3 sons and my wife, we have others explain our disabilities and how it affects our daily lives. We have had to have help from the CAB, to explain our issues and the DWP is purely in denial and the assessors report and the manipulating Decision makers report are pure disability discrimination. This happening in the transfer from DLA to PIP. If the system was there to help all disabled people then individual should either be registered for DLA or PIP, but they have changed to system  to best suite the needs of those who run the system, and not the needs of the disabled.
  • cristobalcristobal Member Posts: 966 Disability Gamechanger
    dolfrog said:
    cristobal said:
    @dolfrog - don't worry too much about the terminology...

    What the DWP need to know is whether you can carry out different 'tasks', whether you need aids, or help/supervision or whether you can't do them at all.

    Use your own words to describe what you can/ can't do; adding some examples is a good idea.

    For example, for PIP, Activity 4 is:-

    This activity considers a claimant’s ability to wash and bathe.

    ‘Washing’ means cleaning ones whole body, including removing dirt and sweat.

    ‘Bathing’ means getting into and out of both an unadapted bath and an unadapted shower.

    So, if you can't get in/out of the bath AND shower and wash yourself explain why, and how you manage.

    Do this for each of the activities that you have difficulty with ...

    Hope this helps ...

    If it doesn't help message me ...
    Hi @cristobal
    due to my communication disability, which I share with all of my family, 3 sons and my wife, we have others explain our disabilities and how it affects our daily lives. We have had to have help from the CAB, to explain our issues and the DWP is purely in denial and the assessors report and the manipulating Decision makers report are pure disability discrimination. This happening in the transfer from DLA to PIP. If the system was there to help all disabled people then individual should either be registered for DLA or PIP, but they have changed to system  to best suite the needs of those who run the system, and not the needs of the disabled.
    @dolfrog - I'm really sorry to hear this... I was responding really to the bit in your earlier post  when you say,

     "Scope should be helping to explain these defintitions in lay mans terms dot that those who have a disability are better able to understand and explain the problems they may face on a day to day basis."

    I'm still happy to help - if you think that I can, as you mention that you get help from the CAB...
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,803 Disability Gamechanger
    At the risk of adding fuel to an already simmering fire there are numerous myths on this thread which need knocking on the head immediately and I’m genuinely shocked that the only intervention has been to ask people to play nice rather than correct some fundamental inaccuracies. 

    1 - This idea that people are classed as disabled. There has been no official register for many years now. So the idea there’s a class of people who ought to get PIP is wholly incorrect. You can be classified as disabled or deemed disabled under the Equality Act 2010 but that’s for entirely different reasons and nothing to do with benefits.

    2 - Minor ailments can have massive functional consequences and thus qualify a person for PIP. The idea that people with minor ailments cannot get PIP is incorrect and needs to be called out as such before people wrongly get put off claiming. . 

    3 - The idea you can get PIP only if your disability incurs extra expenditure is myth. That was an intent announced by ministers. It’s not reflected in the regulations at all and being propagated like this also risks putting some people off claiming who think they won’t qualify because they don’t have extra costs. 

    4 - LIMA has not been banned in the USA at all. ATOS have indeed lost contracts for varying things it that’s not the same at all. Unum Provident as a company have been banned from 15 states. A different thing altogether. 

    Querying whether HCPs from private companies know better than the NHS only shows a misunderstanding of how PIP works. NHS staff can diagnose and treat. They can’t tell a person about the specific symptoms they will experience and the functional consequences of those symptoms. That’s exactly why NHS medical professional were replaced by HCPs. Now, clearly there are massive issues with the conduct of HCPs but that doesn’t mean the NHS would do better (all the data from 1992 when DLA was introduced through to 2013 when PIP was introduced says the exact opposite). 

    5 - Any WRO stating what DWP decision makers do and do not read must have some phenomenal inside knowledge. There’s no reason why a WRO would know that and it makes no sense. How would they learn such a thing? Did a DM tell them? That seems unlikely. Did they go watch them at work? Ditto. How then? Is there any evidence to the contrary? Well, er, how about the fact that most DMs follow the recommendations of a HCP report and that results in more awards than not. How about the fact that decisions have to explain why points were awarded and, in order to do so, they need to reference and usually quote directly from... the HCP report. 

    Afraid I’m going to call that out for what it is. Something which was said to sound impressive and which wholly lacks credibility. 

    6 - the idea that the PIP budget somehow isn’t limitless and therefore someone undeserving could stop someone deserving qualifying. This is not correct at all. If a person meets the criteria then they get an award. There’s no upper limit on the number of people who can get an award. One person getting it will never stop another. Ever. 

    7 - supervision is not used against anyone in PIP. 6 of the 10 daily living activities allow the scoring of points where supervision is involved. 
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    edited November 2019
    DM's DO read the report because I've had my review and the report was full of discrepancies and despite the DM disputing something in the report and waiting for information from my GP, she's made an award anyway which I'm told was because my award was running out (yes I was told that by a DWP manager) and the letter with her reasons tally with what the assessor has stated in his report. The DM's rely on these reports a lot because they aren't medically trained themselves, yes they do dispute them if they see a problem like the DM did with my report.

    I've never been told anything like that by any of the WFO's I've had over the past year (I've had 3 so far).
  • GamerGirl37GamerGirl37 Member Posts: 94 Pioneering
    That makes no sense as for my scores they scored nothing on both times , stating all sorts against my claim which is part of my autism and that it’s only an adult diagnosis.....as in so I ca t possibly have had it through life it’s just appeared as I’ve turned an adult 😡
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 587 Listener
    @GamerGirl37 that's like me being cured of mental health problems at my assessment lol. I was awarded enhanced for both back in 2014, mainly based on my mental health with 8 points in moving around.. the first assessor seemed to understand how my mental and physical health impacted me on a daily basis with hardly any evidence, this time they had more evidence, he's removed anything that indicates that I have mh problems, their excuse is I don't take meds or have input but I didn't at the first assessment either! It doesn't mean I'm cured, it means I tried whatever was offered and none of it worked, there was evidence stating why I don't have meds or input anymore.


  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 231 Pioneering
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • GamerGirl37GamerGirl37 Member Posts: 94 Pioneering
    I just don’t get why they are such idiots 
Sign in or join us to comment.