Your reaction to today's budget and the Health and Disability White Paper

Being on benefits and able to work just does not mix well, no matter what the Government says they will always find a way to stop payments to you whether you work or not, you will be 'means tested' to the point where each week you will have to submit a pay slip or some proof of earnings so they can cut down your benefits - they fool you into believing they are 'giving' you a good deal but deep down they are looking for ways to get more from the people - MPs need to dig deep into their bank accounts and cut down on their spending - after all my toilet and bathroom needs decorating and flooring but I have no 'expense account' to charge it to! 

That's real bad 😢 I hope the Tories don't get elected again either 😡 the other thing I would like to know if I come off UC would I still get my ESA ? I was  automatically switched over from legacy benefit ESA lcwra support group I'm just curious if I stopped the UC and not claim it at all would my ESA benefit stop 🤔

NotReally said:

Cartini said:

Everyone is reading their own version into this prospective change (it`s a white paper, white papers are not always transitioned into law).

My interpretation is that it`s to give disabled people who want to work that opportunity without penalising them (reducing benefits £ for £).

Yes, agreed, but / and:

It looks like there is cause for real concern about the use of PIP in place of the work capability assessment, and that both are deeply flawed in many ways.  Given the government's record in this area, it is not unreasonable to look at how to ensure that our voices are heard with the possible implimentation of these proposals. 

You're quite right about this being prospective, but that's even more reason to get ourselves involved with the process, even though my gut feeling is that there's a large amount of distraction going on (don't look at the man behind the curtain!) and there will be a lot of just coasting along until the next election, at which point either things will start to happen with this, or a new lot will come along maybe with a different set of proposals. 

Either way, let's ensure that nothing happens without us, the people who will be affected by any changes, are heard and are involved.

It is already causing division, which of course is it's intended purpose, along with the small boats issue, in hopefully a vain attempt to keep those 'red wall' voters they persuaded to vote Tory to 'get Brexit done'. It was embarrassing  to hear people jump up and down with glee that 'them furiners that tek us jobs will be going 'ome where they belong'. Them foreigners are here, and we will be sending them home - yet they will be doing overseas recruitment again to fill those posts that actually we as a nation don't want to do! 

After 24 lots of surgery, I have been unable to work now for 13 years - I HATE it! I would far rather have some sort of purpose than sit on my own, day in & day out, socially isolated and poor. The other day on Twitter I was told I was lazy and should get off my fat **** and work, as he had done when he had a leg injury, he went to work on crutches and never had a day off!

I definitely do not fancy having some 'work coach' who hasn't a clue (and probably has a target anyway) deciding whether or not I am fit to work - it was bad enough having an Atos or whoever 'health professional' deciding on my future with not a clue about my disabilities. I suppose that I was 'lucky' enough to have so many of them that deciding on me wasn't that difficult! This will be far worse if this Govt get back in ....

When will a Torry govement stop using stick and carrot an edifice to the numbers of disability benefits claimants.
From what I've been reading everyone looking for the catch.
As everyone is expecting just that as usual with goverment there is a motive and not usually what's best for the people.

DISAGREE WITH THAT  I    lost lot freinds  last 5 - 10  years. most 48- 64 lot  C/ CANCER RELATED  LOT   never made retirntment .  Because covid , other reasons LIVING  age over last 3 years droped  was avg 75-85 , now 75- 80 . Age   75 was avg age 15 years back thats what system was  set up for.  THE  problem with current system PIP / WECA ETC.  it is assetnment  not medical as was pre 2016 BY  qualfied doctor spechialist  most offten  now assors  just young nurse 25-35  just basic nurse  . AND asseors do tell lies on there reports to earn there bonus  for aevery one they pass fit for work weca/ fail for pipi  .  70 % cases what go to tribunral  overturned & claimiant is awarded pip / weca  DISAGREE  with you  NOT  all people  with disabilitys can work , esp if the disabilty is mobility related .   IE  difficulty walking  / standing  moving HOW  do they  do any manual work ???. walk to bus stops  to get anywere ?? . ENGLAND  is one 6 richest country in the world  . ITS  not the disabled  the GOVERTNMENT want clamp down . BUT  TAX OFFSHORE AVADERS  £ billtions  lost to econmy / our tax system in last 13 years  . ALL  what has happened in last 13 years is rich got richer poor  poorer few lucky ones have all wealth  IN herited  not earned .  . LIKE you because degenrative for life spine back condtion walking standing  i work up to 3 days week  30 hours , cant manadge full time  40 + hours  now & 59 due  disabilty  walking  standing . I  dont feel i be working to 67 . as i said  ,1920s victortian govertment  TORY CONS  2010-2024  , put money welf greed  selfish ness  1 priority  use money as form power , control domination . LACK empathy  compastion  lords  sons daughters  never done full days work in there life . HOPEFULLY  gone by dec 2024 . WE can have more fair democractic  ENGLAND  not 1920s  neolibrail  victortian values polilcys as like now current 2010- 2024 . TIME  tell .  IF  you wish to agree, support ,  1920s era & Tory / conservativie  ways of govertnment thats your free choice . I DONT  never have / will never have , will vote for them .  THE alternative 1997-2010  was better times more fair square democractic . 

2oldcodgers said:

g7iqj said:

 AGE 59  due to works accident 36  yrs back .  Now   left with DEGENRATIVE  for life spine / back issue/ mobility issues walkng standing  over 20- 50 meteres  .  I  like lot others ,PAYED 40 yrs  CLASS1 ni / tax /stamp  PAYE .  Still managedge  part time non handball / manuall handle driving work , top up with UC UNICREDIT ASS WHEN NEEDED.  I FIND it offensive  current govertnment say   WE  people with disabilitys  give nothing back system  all take  ????.    HOW  can this be when we  like me& you worked full time contributed to system   over  40 yrs  so ur OAP  penstion  paid for by paying  35 yrs off NI / PAYE CLASS1 .  BUT  current cant claim it to 66 RISING  . TO  point we only claiming  some off what we payed in for over years .   IE   NI  pays for state oap penstion , nhs ,   benefits . CURRENT GOVERTNMENT  dont look it like that . 

I do believe that the point of this new policy is not to look back at what you paid but more to the future to carry out some level of work despite a disability that pays a wage from which the government need the NI and tax payments.
Most disabled, and I count myself as one who are able to work to earn a living.
I should also mention that your NI paymnts are National INSURANCE payments.
Your State Pension is simply the proceeds from an INSURANCE policy set up by the government. They set an age that is considered to be an age when work should cease. As we are living longer then it is only right that the age of Retirement also gets longer.  

I understand why people might think living longer then you need to retire later to balance the books but this is fiction, reality is poor economic choices, if proper financial  planning had been undertaken as realisation of the age gap growing between retirement and deaths.
Or should men retire before woman as women's they out live men?
This is simply a financial decision to take from the poor pot....or rather not put more into the beggers bowl.
Why spend more on pensions for the people who really need them when you can just raise the age you get them...they could have means tested them. But that's not so popular with the core middle wealth voter.
Just imo.

2oldcodgers said:

g7iqj said:

DISAGREE WITH THAT  I    lost lot freinds  last 5 - 10  years. most 48- 64 lot  C/ CANCER RELATED  LOT   never made retirntment .  Because covid , other reasons LIVING  age over last 3 years droped  was avg 75-85 , now 75- 80 . Age   75 was avg age 15 years back thats what system was  set up for.   

Facts and figures to help you understand.
The average age of death in 1970 was 71.71 years
The average age of death in 2020 was 81.15 years

The age male state pension in 1970 was at 65 years
The age male state pension should have been in 2020 at least 73 years of age.

This is saying that in 1970 the average male would have received 6.71 years of state pension. Consequently as we now live longer it is only right that the time spent receiving the State Pension should reflect that fact. Thus in 2020 the retirement age for the pension should have been 73!  

"Thus in 2020 the retirement age for the pension should have been 73"
Well this is just bean counter fantasy.
How can you not see, we have had an agreed retirement age and this is  a contract between the worker and the government.
Work till your 65 then no matter how old you get or if you only live a short time your get the state penstion.
Yes the fiscal issues when proper investment is not found when the age we live expand but they always knew the age we take retirement till death would expand as that was the whole purpose of the NHS, to create a healthier work force that lived longer and improved life. I'm not disagreeing for your figures just looking at the bigger picture.
My questions is:
Why investment was not following the age gap growth to cover the extra cash needed to avoid problems as we now see with the retirement age sliding?
And
As woman are living longer than men, should they under your schema retire later than men, to help balance the books?

 IT was B4 TORY CONSERVATIVE   penstion /  benefit reforms  2016 . . IF   you  had long term disability  claimed SSP  up to 26 weeks  you could not work  . Y ou then transfered  to invadility benefit after 26 weeks. HAD  proper medical assetnment by employed  DWP  doctor , if they agreeded with ur own doctor  you just had yearly medicals .  

2oldcodgers said:

stevie66 said:

How can you not see, we have had an agreed retirement age and this is  a contract between the worker and the government.

Why investment was not following the age gap growth to cover the extra cash needed to avoid problems as we now see with the retirement age sliding?
And

As woman are living longer than men, should they under your schema retire later than men, to help balance the books?

There was and never has been a contract that 65 for men and 60 for women should be able to retire on the State Pension. It was originally set at 60/65 for one reason only - the cost had to be affordable.
The calculation worked on the basis of an estimate of number of years they would be on the pension before they died.
Take 1971 for example the average age of death was 71 which meant an average total amount of pension would be paid for 6 years. That was what was agreed. Then in 2020 the average of age at death was 81. So the government had to find another approx 10 years of pension.
Keep going like that and the State pension would have been unaffordable. Hence they increased the age of retirement to try and get back to the original 6 years of pension life.

It is not possible to keep on ploughing more and more money into the Welfare budget for the State Pension. 

That is sexist and cannot/will not feature in the State Pension. Men clamored for their pension age (65) to be equalized to that of a woman. The government listened and agreed so they increased the woman's age to receive the State Pension to 65 in stages.

In talking about pensions surely the answer like everyone I know they have provided for their retirement by way of private pensions.

THIS is not  about state penstion age . its about  people who for 1 reason or another  CANT  work because disabilitys .  FORCING  people  55- 64 who cant  because of disability back into full time work .