Green Paper Related Discussions
Comments
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I can’t see GPs willing to get involved in this . I take there would be quotas like the assessors seem to have . They can’t say everyone is too sick to work as the government wants the opposite.
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I agree never ever forgiven they have taken us to hell and back on going yes I definitely go green
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I totally understand I hate doing glasses shop I find hard took in mirror and when you put glasses on and they say look at me let's see what they so true he os a flip flop but we suffer rollercoaster they are useless
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They want to take the power GP's have of giving fit notes away also.
They do not want you to have a penny if you can't work, it's that simple and apparently doing that will help Labour beat Reform, it's absolute lunacy, Labour are a one term government and I never want to see them anywhere near government ever again after this.
Oh Labour have an answer if we can't work, it's called euthanasia.
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What a coincidence the assisted dying bill at the same time as removing out benefits. I’m sure I read some time ago a MP saying they’re concerned by this
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I do econsults never go in what will they do then ? Force people in I'm sure my doctor wouldn't have that who knows seems money buys everything imagine tea and biscuits on tap get you into a false sense of illusion if that was back in the day my dad would have gone everyday for tea and biscuits to tell them the same story how he came home and my mum had gone even smaratians said he had to stop visiting everyday sorry spelling bad
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When time comes we need to do tactic voting what's good for us and doesn't involve reform getting loads of seats
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I believe great things are happening behind closed doors movement for red wall Corbyn McDonnell and all real labour mps there is still some who believe in its core values watch this space
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Apparently all mps are doing there own thing not even listening to starmer they can want what they want I believe more will vote against pip cuts and tories will vote against green lib dems they will do deliberately because they know how the public despises them would you want to be associated with a sinking ship thier evilness towards all UK citizens and even disabled minister walking over collapsed disabled woman shows mps charities any logical human being how we have been abused bullied victimised tormented threatened with our mere existence for years YEARS !! Labour came in and showed the world thiers is a wishlist of the global elites and now I finally understand the power of the people God have we shown them our next request if I could swear I would so I will say just leave us alone
.back off !!!
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Catherine I saw this earlier and thought of you 😀. Everywhere it’s saying starmers days are numbered. I know people say the Labour Party don’t oust their PMs like the Tory’s do but I think these are different circumstances now .
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I sent the link to that article about Timms to Starmer , badenoch , Abraham’s and Jeremy. Think I’ll send it to Rayner tmrw. That should be all over the msm and he said be sacked , odious man
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Jason They want to take the power GP's have of giving fit notes away also.
(from A guide for General Practitioners and other doctors February 2010)
"Why change? Improving your patients’ health through work. Evidence shows that work has therapeutic value and is generally good for physical and mental health.
With the introduction of the new Statement the Forms Med 3 and Med 5 have been streamlined into one form. Also, because of the recent introduction of Employment and Support Allowance (ESA), you no longer have to fill in Form Med 4;"
Med 4 medical evidence to support an incapacity benefits claim was abolished in 2010 and replaced with the 'fit note' for ESA.
GPs' (and NHS Consultant doctors) exclusive authority to issue a Med 3 Statement to patients was abolished in 2016 and shared with any old 'health professional' you've never met. UC already does not have to accept a 'fit note' and is now telling GPs not to write one.
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The British Medical Association (BMA) has lately gotten powerful and the government can't impose anything arbitrarily on doctors. Doctors have clearly said that the doctor-patient relationship is indeed considered sacrosanct. A relationship built on a foundation of trust, where patients confide in their doctors for care and treatment, and where doctors are obligated to prioritise the patient's well-being.
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I think we need to also write to these MPs.
I'm going to send them the same nasty email I've sent to Rayner.
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Hi Catherine
Are you confident now that we will win this, with the numbers ?
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just seen this in the sun
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As things stand It's not looking good for Starmer, and now it's rumoured in The Sun Tories are planning to voye against welfare cuts too, to oust him. Here's some good news for a change;
Following the 2024 UK general election, the composition of the House of Commons is as follows:
- Labour: 412 seats
- Conservatives: 121 seats
- Liberal Democrats: 72 seats
- Scottish National Party (SNP): 9 seats
- Reform UK: 5 seats
- Green Party: 4 seats
- Plaid Cymru: 4 seats
- Democratic Unionist Party (DUP): 5 seats
- Sinn Féin: 7 seats (note: Sinn Féin MPs traditionally abstain from taking their seats)
- Others/Independents: 11 seatsCompass+8The Guardian+8BBC+8votesmatter.org.uk+5BBC+5BBC Feeds+5votesmatter.org.uk+1BBC+1
This totals 650 seats in the House of Commons.
In your scenario, if 170 MPs either abstain or vote against welfare changes, and the Conservatives, Liberal Democrats, and Greens also vote against them, the vote breakdown would be:
- Against the welfare changes:
- Conservatives: 121
- Liberal Democrats: 72
- Greens: 4
- Labour MPs voting against or abstaining: 170
- Total opposing or abstaining: 367 MPs
- Supporting the welfare changes:
- Remaining Labour MPs: 412 total - 170 = 242
- Assuming no support from other parties, the total in favor would be 242 MPs
With 367 MPs opposing or abstaining and only 242 supporting, the welfare changes would not pass.
Therefore, under these conditions, Labour would lose the vote on welfare changes.
Sources
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@WhatThe - whilst I can agree with one of your previous comments, but only in part (who has 'demanded' proof with links? I might have, I hoped, politely asked, that's all, & the better to understand - links help, & then a member will draw their own conclusion - so that comment of yours, as you're completely aware, is untrue).
I do however agree that republishing propaganda may contribute to the 'mental torture' that some members might be putting themselves through. Everyone is trying to help tho, & will do so in their own way. Sharing what they've read in the media isn't trying to 'misinform' anyone else, & many members try to counter misinformation anyway.
I've got very real concerns about misinformation spreading to the forum, & have done for years, but if you mistrust everyone & every source, as I hope to only use those I find are verifiable, then you & I are never going to agree on that one.
I don't doubt you that previous reforms have gradually led to where we are today, but members are trying to concentrate on this Green Paper, as yes, there was comparitively 'much less communication by social media in 2012 & 2016'; some members may not even have been using the internet all those years ago.
As to your 2nd comment, I think the idea was not to take a GP's 'power' away over 'fit' notes, rather acknowledging that this takes time out of a GP's day helping their patients with their medical problems, that it could be seen as a conflict of interest, & that other Healthcare Professionals might be in a better position to evaluate could a person return to work with sometimes reasonable adjustments, for example?
And 'no' the 'authority' to give out a fit note was not 'shared with any old 'health professional' you've never met,' rather the opposite, as you needed to be their patient too. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that other Healthcare Professionals have only been able to write 'fit' notes since April 2024 (should they wish) as I remember mentioning this on the forum. But don't take my word for it:
& a comment from May 2024:
but yes, this is certainly thinking about getting people back into work, tho it's not relevant for PIP which is a disability benefit.
I'm unsure how a WCA could be initiated without a fit note?
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Even if Reform were to vote in favour of cuts they would still be defeated.
✅ In favour of welfare changes:
- Labour loyalists: 412 - 170 = 242
- Reform UK: 5
➡ Total in favour: 242 + 5 = 247 MPs
🧮 Final Tally:
- For: 247
- Against/Abstain: ~390
🔴 Result: Welfare changes would still fail.
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