Green Paper Related Discussions
Comments
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You are correct, since April 2022 (with practical rollout in 2023–2024), certain healthcare professionals other than GPs can issue fit notes, but only if they are directly involved in the patient’s care. The change is about efficiency and appropriateness, not about diminishing the GP’s role. Your recollection and understanding are spot on!
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i'd never thought we'd see the day that we'd get the Tories as allies.
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I read that but what I find confusing is in the article it says they’re voting against it as it’s not going far enough, yet I’m sure I heard the Tory’s said it was cruel . Mind you it’s the sun so maybe they added their little bit to it .
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yes I saw that too
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What I would like to know is what can happen out of the two out comes ?
It gets rejected ?What is the next step for the government will they try again?
or it passes ?Would there be legal challenges ?
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chiarieds, the PM in both your links is Rishi Sunak.
"And 'no' the 'authority' to give out a fit note was not 'shared with any old 'health professional' you've never met"
But it was!! The reforms I mentioned to Med 3 certification were enacted in 2016 and implemented from April 2017 (I think). DWP's subsequent plans will remove GPs entirely from the equation - the ones RS was talking about.
"I don't doubt you that previous reforms have gradually led to where we are today, but members are trying to concentrate on this Green Paper,"
It is gobbledegook without reference to existing rules and those rules should not have passed! There's no gradual. We've been conned but not by this PM.
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The change is about efficiency and appropriateness,
not about diminishing the GP’s role.That is exactly what was intended. What had served benefits claimants for 20 years was changed through the Welfare Reform and Work Act 2016. There was plenty of concern from GP's and the Local Government Association (LGA) at the time.
There is zero appropriateness at DWP where claimants' health is concerned.
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Labour: 412 seats
You need to do your calculations again, as Labour do not have 412 seats in the House of Commons.
At the 2024 general election, the Labour Party won 411 seats, but as of 01 June 2025, this stands at 403 and not 412.
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My prognosis is that it won't get rejected, as they won't take it as it's now to the Commons for a vote. They'll keep turning it around until they're sure it's ready to get through.
Keir Starmer won't abandon this easily, as he even calls it a "moral plan", because he's used by T. Blair, G. Brown, D. Blunkett, A. Milburn, Morgan McSweeney who are the architects of these evil proposals. Alan Milburn even openly said, and I quote, "Economic Growth won't be achievable unless 2 million sick and disabled people are put into work". "Pathways to Work" was designed and set up by a commission led by Alan Milburn. The Green Paper is mostly based on the recommendations of Alan Milburn through his "Pathways to Work Commission report".
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It is this PM that's hellbent on supporting the enactment of the proposed legislation, whether or not those changes are only possible because of what was done 10 years ago. (Just so you don't accidentally paint him as any better than his predecessors.)
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Exactly what I think . IMO it doesn’t matter what was put in place by previous PMs or who’s behind starmer . He’s PM the buck stops with him . The only moral crusade he has is one against the disabled. How are cuts needed to bring the welfare bill down when there’s no mention of getting the fit job seekers work and they’re thinking of scrapping the two child limit and reinstating the WFA ( which I agree with) which cancels out any savings from pip cuts .
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the omission of any impact statements tells you everything you need to know about Starmer and his proposed cuts !
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Hi Squirrel 🐿️
I was really wiped out but at least I don't wake up in pain. It's really sad that you have to put up with fibromyalgia too. 😞
I'm also sad to hear that you are amongst the few with the enhanced DL rate who doesn't have 4 points in any one question. You have such a high level of needs and therefore deserve a high level of support, not to have it all taken off you completely. 😤
I do hope that this situation will improve for you, hopefully by a lot and for the sake of the rest of us who are going to lose out too.
I think that MPs have come to understand a great deal about our situation as there has been such a huge outcry by us, our DPOs, charities etc.I don't think that the Labour leadership expected this much opposition, in such a short time which has caused MPs to have become a lot more aware of how the impact of the cuts will affect us before the vote.
Ministers were obviously hoping it would not be until afterwards, long afterwards as it will take another 4 months to get all the impact assessments together for MPs to see.
I believe that we can have more confidence in MPs than you think. 😊
As for Kendall and Co, I think we can expect every sort of skullduggery from them.
I'm only speculating but I do think that if they push up one lot of scoring for standard rate, in their mind, I don't think that they would settle at having one rate, they would want to put up the points for the enhanced rate too.
I think that they want to try to trick MPs into accepting a different scenario for us that sounds better to begin with but will end up being just as devastating for us in reality.
MPs look to be onto them them though, with refusing to deal with the leaderships "tweaks." as they call them. I think that the MPs know that ministers are trying to pull the wool over their eyes and are trying to push the vote through too quickly.
That's why they are trying to get them to slow down so MPs can consider these cuts properly and they insist that we must get a proper say on all points of the proposals.
I've realised myself that just because large numbers of MPs are abstaining on the vote, instead of voting against, it doesn't mean that this isn't a major government revolt against the leadership and a great threat to Labour party unity. It is, which surprised me too!
You're right in saying this really isn't about the small amount of money that is needed for us out of this country's vast budget every year. Right wing MPs seem obsessed with doing everything they possibly can large corporations, banks and businesses making obscene amounts of money and looking after the interests of the already rich.
This is powered by having as many people as possible working to make them as much profit as possible, at any one time.
This is why we are suffering, as the elderly (WFA) and children (Child Benefit Cap) are having to do, quite unnecessarily. 😡 If you cannot work, or are too young, or old to work then you are considered an expendable burden. Which is appalling, I know. 😞
That's also why there is no regard for the fact that most of us have worked in the past, the elderly have done so too, or that children are the workers of the future.
Because of this pathological hated, and the fact that we are an obstacle to their parliamentary ambitions too, especially in the case of Starmer and Co, is why we all believe that they are trying to ruin our lives by removing our vital support.
I would say that I think that their ideological hatred of us definitely outstrips whether they will save any money or not. They will know, as well as we do that it will cost the country a lot more to improverish us than it will save in the long run, so I would say that this is about their indefensible, ideology driven attitude and political maneuvering not money.
As Timms has so disgracefully shown us in the last few days. 😡 He should be careful, his actions are not matching his words, demonstrating what their opinion really is of us.
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Absolutely Catherine, haven't they just!! 😡
That's good that you've decided to vote for the Greens too. 👍
If Labour think that we can forgive and forget what they have done to us, I think that they will find that they have another thing coming! 😤
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Redo my calculations???? Well I have done, turns out I was wrong (apologies) but so were you, not 403 as you quoted.
As of June 1, 2025, the Labour Party holds 404 seats in the UK House of Commons. This figure reflects a reduction from the 411 seats secured during the 2024 general election. The decrease is attributed to factors such as resignations, suspensions, and by-election outcomes. Institute for Government
The current composition of the House of Commons is as follows:
- Labour: 404 MPs
- Conservative: 121 MPs
- Liberal Democrat: 72 MPs
- Scottish National Party (SNP): 9 MPs
- Reform UK: 4 MPs
- Green Party: 4 MPs
- Plaid Cymru: 4 MPs
- Democratic Unionist Party (DUP): 5 MPs
- Social Democratic & Labour Party (SDLP): 2 MPs
- Alliance Party: 1 MP
- Ulster Unionist Party (UUP): 1 MP
- Traditional Unionist Voice (TUV): 1 MP
- Independent: 13 MPs
- Speaker: 1 MP
- Sinn Féin: 7 MPs (who do not take their seats)Parallel ParliamentParallel Parliament+3Reuters+3IPU Parline+3
This distribution confirms Labour's position as the majority party in Parliament.
Sources
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jasminehoop, he's nothing like the PM's of the last 14 years, no!
I wouldn't mind him resigning if it meant targeting the real villains in Parliament - the ones who stitched us up in 2012 and 2015 - now running around like headless chickens trying to sell DWP's 'new' plan for sick and disabled claimants.
Existing rules for incapacity benefits for working-age claimants concern me more than proposals to cut PIP. I think we are muddling the issues presented in this Green Paper. I recommend that members have a read of past Green Papers, White Papers and policy.
There are good reasons for the media to have fallen silent over the 2016 Act. You cannot pin that on Keir Starmer!
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That one puts my teeth on edge too, having to look at the optiction and other members of staff so closely while they are sorting out your perscription and frame measurements out for you. 😬 It's not a good experience.
The quality of our lives shouldn't have to depend on vicious, throughly irresponsible MPs, who are only capable of thinking about their own interests.
I feel though, that will all the support we have from MPs and many other individuals and organisations that the rollercoaster is slowing down despite Starmer and Co. 👍
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Morning Juls,
I know how wiped out you would have been. How on earth would we be expected to work with ME . It’s like expecting a car to drive without any petrol .
I think the wording in the tweak is so vague that taken in face value says simply to me if you’re in standard and get a 4 you’re ok (13%) and if you’re on enhanced but don’t get a 4 13%, like me) whereas you’d lose pip now you wouldn’t. So anyone on standard without a 4 loses , 87% of people I think . That’s just the way I read it but what they actually mean who knows. Now maths is not my strongest point but I can work out that it’s a majority of standard to lose , how can MPs think this is 10% . Even at 10% that’s people that are disabled as there’s less than 1% fraud in pip. Then of course there’s the tweak of TP to give time to apply for imaginary benefits . So we’d have no choice but to stay with uc basic as job seekers. Considering we spend most of our time resting how would we look for work ? MPs shouldn’t be allowed to vote until they know the true facts but instead they’re be pressured to vote without full information. This alone would surely not hold up in court ?1 -
Surely a vote taken without full information would not stand up in court ? No proper consultation eithet
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https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/2061580/keir-starmers-mask-off-premiership
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