Hi, my name is coffeetable! 0 points awarded on my PA4 form — Scope | Disability forum
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Hi, my name is coffeetable! 0 points awarded on my PA4 form

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coffeetable
coffeetable Community member Posts: 36 Connected
edited November 2022 in PIP, DLA, and AA
Hi, I had a video interview on the 4th of November 2022 and it went about 45 min. I answered all the questions and explained my hearing impairment, Osteoarthritis and Stress. I also added that I cannot cook a simple meal, cannot carry shopping bags, cannot use the bath or toilet by myself and need my wife's support. Cannot walk more than a minute because of OSTEOARTHRITIS. Left hearing impairment unable to communicate. But after requesting PA4 48 hrs from the interview date, I can see there were 0 points awarded for both daily living and mobility, what can I do now, I'm so nervous.
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Comments

  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 54,298 Disability Gamechanger
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    The assessment report is not the decision, it's a recommendation. Though they mostly go with the report, it has been known for them to go against it. Once the decision is made if you're not happy you can request the Mandatory Reconsideration (MR) within 1 month of the date of the decision.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • coffeetable
    coffeetable Community member Posts: 36 Connected
    edited November 2022
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    Thank you ADA for warm welcome and thank you Poppy for advice. I gave a call to DWP just now regarding 0 points. The agent said the same thing but added with more information. First thing she said is I shouldn't have requested PA4 form which is a rough copy of the assessment and nothing I can do with the report until decision made. There will be scrutiny with the report and I might likely get some points but if the decision is not favour on me I was told to go for MR, but at the moment I should not worry and also added I cannot do anything. Are they right?
  • Hannah_Alumni
    Hannah_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,912 Disability Gamechanger
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    Hello @coffeetable

    Welcome to our community!

    I'm so sorry to hear that after your video interview they awarded you 0 Points. Don't worry or be nervous. Like Poppy said, it's a recommendation not the decision so I am keeping everything crossed for you. 

    I've moved your post into our PIP, DLA and AA section of the forum to see if anyone else has any advice or has had the same experience. 
    Hannah - She / Her

    Online Community Coordinator @ Scope

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  • coffeetable
    coffeetable Community member Posts: 36 Connected
    edited November 2022
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    Thank you Hannah 
  • nasturtium
    nasturtium Community member Posts: 376 Pioneering
    edited November 2022
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    Hello Coffetable
    Personal Independence Payment (PIP) is not awarded based on diagnosis but on what problems you have completing the 12 PIP activities according to the descriptors. You need to be having problems completing the 12 PIP activities “Reliably” more that 50% of the time.
    The word “Reliably” is a very important word when you are claiming PIP because you have to complete all of the 12 PIP Activities according to the descriptors Safely, repeatedly, reasonable time period, and to an acceptable standard. If you cannot do the activity because you meet ONE of those four criteria's then you should be assessed as not being able to do the activity and you should be awarded points if you meet one of the point scoring descriptors. So if you cannot do an activity because you are slow doing that activity because of pain or you have OCD and you have to go through rituals when doing the activity then you should be classed as not doing the activity “Reliably” because you cannot do it in a reasonable time. More about Reliably here https://pipinfo.net/issues/reliably
    You need to understand what the 12 Activities involve and  and the different descriptors  you are being assessed on. More on that can be found here https://pipinfo.net/issues/reliably#activities
    Advice of the PIP activities and how to fill the form (Also useful for Mandatory Reconsiderations) https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/help-with-your-claim/fill-in-form-pip/
    Remembering the word “Reliably” explained above you need to be descriptive about the problems you have completing the activity reliably according to the applicable descriptor and if possible give real word examples of what happened the last time you attempted that activity, who sore it and what were the consequences.
    You said “cannot use the bath or toilet by myself and need my wife's support” If you have support off your wife then you can ask her to write you a supporting letter explaining all of the difficulties you have and more importantly she needs to explain what she observes and what help she gives you and why she gives that help. Remember the descriptors and the word “Reliably” She will need to explain it is A supporting letter for your PIP Claim and explain how she knows you and how often she sees you.
    You said “cannot carry shopping bags” this is not applicable to any of the PIP activities.
    If you have an hearing impairment then there could be safety (Reliably) implications doing a number of the PIP activities like you could not hear a fire alarm if you are in the bath https://pipinfo.net/conditions/hearing-impairment so you could score 2 points for needing to use an aid or needing supervision.
    You can include all of the above in your Mandatory Reconsideration letter.
    If you are still having problems with your mandatory reconsideration then you can put your postcode into the search box of this page and it will list the local welfare advice agencies close to you to see further help and advice. https://advicelocal.uk/welfare-benefits
    I hope this has been of some assistance.

    How to challenge a PIP award that has been reduced at Review https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/696285#Comment_696285
  • coffeetable
    coffeetable Community member Posts: 36 Connected
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    Thank you Nastratium. As per your advice, I will get my wife's help to attach a supporting letter that how she helps me with bathing and hearing impairment.

    I would like to add a few points here which I took from the PA4 report. Under the heading Functional history, including variability, daily living activities and mobility activities- the assessor (Occupational therapist) wrote while I was saying that I cannot cook as it takes more time to cook and also standing in a position for more than 3 minutes will suffer knee pain. Getting any items in the kitchen needs movement and also twisted my legs several times, so my wife doesn't allow me in the kitchen. But the assessor has ticked can cook and prepare simple meals unaided.

    secondly, under Activity 3)Managing therapy or monitoring a health condition she has marked a) does not receive medication or therapy or need to monitor a health condition- although I said my physiotherapy has told me to perform the exercise for my Osteoarthritis and it takes at least an hour per day for 7 days with my wife supervision, she has also mentioned that under Justification for descriptor choice, but still she gave 0 points which is contradictory.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 54,298 Disability Gamechanger
    edited November 2022
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     Getting any items in the kitchen needs movement and also twisted my legs several times, so my wife doesn't allow me in the kitchen.

    Carry items around the kitchen isn't part of this activity.
    standing in a position for more than 3 minutes will suffer knee pain.

    What about a perching stool?



    secondly, under Activity 3)Managing therapy or monitoring a health condition she has marked a) does not receive medication or therapy or need to monitor a health condition- although I said my physiotherapy has told me to perform the exercise for my Osteoarthritis and it takes at least an hour per day for 7 days with my wife supervision, she has also mentioned that under Justification for descriptor choice, but still she gave 0 points which is contradictory.
    Why do you need supervision for this activity? What exactly would happen if you didn't have that supervision?

    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • nasturtium
    nasturtium Community member Posts: 376 Pioneering
    edited November 2022
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    Remember you need to be able to do all of the activities "Reliably" If you cannot do the activity "Reliably" you need to explain in detail why.
    If you need to use an aid to help you to complete the activity then you could score 2 points. Like a Perching Stool to aid you to prepare a meal but you will need to explain why you use that aid, what that aid does to help you, what would happen if you did not have that aid. If you cannot use a Perching stool because it would be unsafe then you will need to explain in detail why you cannot use a Perching stool to aid you to Prepare a meal, why it would be unsafe or inappropriate. Do this for all aids you use.
    All of that information should help you to create a detailed MR Letter.
    How to challenge a PIP award that has been reduced at Review https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/696285#Comment_696285
  • coffeetable
    coffeetable Community member Posts: 36 Connected
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    Why do you need supervision for this activity? What exactly would happen if you didn't have that supervision?

    My wife helps me to Initiate the exercises and supervises me during the activities so that I properly do the exercises. Because sometimes I twist my leg and that pain stays for a longer period of time and also need help to lift my legs while doing some part of the exercise so she can overview my activities and whether I do them correctly.



    What about a perching stool?
    Yes, I can use the perching stool, but the interviewer didn't ask for this, so I didn't reply about the aid.
  • coffeetable
    coffeetable Community member Posts: 36 Connected
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    Today I received a decision letter awarding 0 points on both activities. Gutted. 

    Decision says :

    • Although you have left ear impairment, you can use your right ear to hear so communication or hearing is no problem at all. ( I said when my child speaks to me I cannot hear as I'm tall and I lose hearing)
    • You work most of the days at a convenience store which requires standing so I have decided that you can walk more than 200 metres. ( I said my manager provides me with a chair as I cannot stand)
    Like the above, they have denied everything. But I have a problem walking, as no one takes my children to school I have been forced to take them to school in pain, but this doesn't mean that I'm alright.

    I was working full time, but because of arthritis I'm doing only part-time( 20 hrs) and that too only 4 hours/ shift as I cannot work or left anything working longer hours. This doesn't mean I'm ok and have no pain at all. If I don't go to work, I won't get paid, and no one is there for me to pay bills and rent. This is the reason I'm going to work and managing the pain and making it worse. Moreover, GP says, I'm making it worse by working at a convenience store.

    I mentioned everything at the interview, but the occupational therapist didn't bother to note it down.

    I said I have to ask more than  10 times to repeat what my child or someone at work said as I cannot hear when they say something on my left side. But the decision says I can manage with the right ear, Seriously? The interviewer is not an ENT doctor or has an impairment like me.
    I cannot really hear if someone communicate with me from the left side. How can I make them understand?
    The interviewer asked me why I'm using the headset on right hear. I explained my impairment in the left ear and also added that I cannot hear songs as other people do. All have been ignored.




  • calcotti
    calcotti Community member Posts: 10,010 Disability Gamechanger
    edited November 2022
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    You can challenge the decision by requesting a Mandatory Reconsideration. Usually this does not change the decision in which case you can appeal to the tribunal service.
    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/benefits-introduction/problems-with-benefits-and-tax-credits/challenging-benefit-decisions/

    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • coffeetable
    coffeetable Community member Posts: 36 Connected
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    Hi , my MR is against me. Denied and given same reason and awarded 0 points in all activities citing reason " To need an aid , a device must be needed to help you complete this activity. You need prompting, another person would be needed to help you to manage this activity. To need assistance, another person would need to physically help you including doing some, but not all, of the activity. To need supervision, another person must be with you all the time while you are completing the activity to ensure your safety."
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 54,298 Disability Gamechanger
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    The most likely outcome of any MR is the decision remains the same anyway. You can now proceed with requesting the Tribunal.
    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • coffeetable
    coffeetable Community member Posts: 36 Connected
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    Thank you Poppy for your support. I had not taken any help from CAB to apply PIP as my area CAB is very busy and all the phone lines are automated. Do you reckon going for help will get positive sign from tribunal? If yes do I seek help now or after getting hearing date?. 
  • calcotti
    calcotti Community member Posts: 10,010 Disability Gamechanger
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    If you want help you should seek it now.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • coffeetable
    coffeetable Community member Posts: 36 Connected
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    calcotti said:
    If you want help you should seek it now.
    I will get help. Thank you.
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 54,298 Disability Gamechanger
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    calcotti said:
    If you want help you should seek it now.
    I will get help. Thank you.

    https://advicelocal.uk/welfare-benefits

    I would appreciate it if members wouldn't tag me please. I have all notifcations turned off and wouldn't want a member thinking i'm being rude by not replying.
    If i see a question that i know the answer to i will try my best to help.
  • coffeetable
    coffeetable Community member Posts: 36 Connected
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    calcotti said:
    If you want help you should seek it now.
    I will get help. Thank you.

    https://advicelocal.uk/welfare-benefits

    I talked with my lical borough CAB today and they said someone will get in touch with me in 5 days time. Also i will check with your link as well.
  • L_Volunteer
    L_Volunteer Community Volunteer Adviser, Scope Member Posts: 7,978 Disability Gamechanger
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    Hopefully, someone will contact you soon @coffeetable. How are you feeling about everything at the moment?  :)
    Community Volunteer Adviser with professional knowledge of education, special educational needs and disabilities and EHCP's. Pronouns: She/her. 

    Please note: if I use the online community outside of its hours of administration, I am doing so in a personal capacity only.
  • coffeetable
    coffeetable Community member Posts: 36 Connected
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    Hopefully, someone will contact you soon @coffeetable. How are you feeling about everything at the moment?  :)
    Thank you. Yes, today I was contacted by a staff from DABD and said she is specialised in PIP tribunal and told me to get GP letter about my conditions like how my hearing impairment and OA affecting my daily life. She said audiology tests and x ray reports is not sufficient and would not work and that's why they have given me 0 points and moreover she said do not worry about 30 days time line and she will write supporting evidence why I exceeded 30 days time line. she reassured me about the timeline and told me to get the GP letter and she will take care of the rest.

    Now could someone help me what and how to request GP letter for my conditions please.

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