Hi, my name is coffeetable! 0 points awarded on my PA4 form

coffeetable

one word cost me fortune.  In the cooking meal activity- 

                          b. Needs to use an aid or appliance to be able to either prepare or cook a simple meal. My wife witness statement was " My husband although struggles to cook his meal despite using a stool as aid, he manages to cook his food independently". She forgot to add the word Simple meal. At the time of hearing the Disability rep asked me that " your wife states in her statement that you can cook all of your food independently, i stunned at that time, but I had to accept it because it is my wife statement and I said yes because I was nervous at that time, later my wife said when she came out that she missed the simple to add and she didn't expect that this will cause me rejection. As I said yes for the question without knowingly, I faces rejection. They have awarded 2 each in washing and bathing, toilet needs and communicating totalling of 6 points. I missed cooking part, and just 4 points in Moving around totalling only 4 points in mobility section.

coffeetable

I was doing a brief research about re-applying PIP as fresh as my condition has changed.  Before i used to pick and drop child at school and had a part time work, now I'm not doing any, also i feel more severity pain on knees. Is this reason enough for change in condition? My wife is a former physiotherapist who also gave witness statement at the tribunal that i suffer a lot from my single sided hearing and OA. 

My question is, do i need to send more medical evidence such as latest X-ray or MRI for knees( which I'm planning to request from GP). Should i need to see my MP as well?

Albus_Scope

If you're going to reapply, the good news is you don't have to wait before you do.  
PIP isn't about what conditions you have, it's how they affect your life.  So as said before, make sure you show in each descriptor how things effect you, with real world examples.  

If it's a "sometimes" kind of answer, think about if it affects you for over 50% of the time, or you cant do something safely, repeatedly, safely or in a reasonable time, then you'd be classed as not being able to do that descriptor.  I'd say supporting letters from doctors, or people who know how your disabilities affect you daily can be helpful, but as long as you fill in the forms properly, they're usually not essential. 

I hope that makes sense? 

poppy123456

You can reapply at anytime but doing so using the same evidence you previously used could see another refusal. 

I’m not sure why you would want to contact your local MP as they will have very little understanding of the PIP descriptors. Having a disability doesn’t automatically entitle you to PIP. You can have a disability but if you don’t meet the descriptors you won’t score enough of points needed for an award. Unfortunately there are some people that don’t qualify. I’m not saying you don’t so please don’t think that. What I’m trying to say is that contacting your local MP isn’t something I would recommend. 

Instead, I’d advise you to do a little research first before picking up the phone to reapply. Prepare yourself and get some additional knowledge of the descriptors and what they mean. The more prepared you are before starting a new claim the better it will be for you. This will be a good place to start. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities

coffeetable

Thank you both Albus_Scope and Poppy123456. 

To Albus:

You rightly stated, "PIP isn't about what conditions you have; it's how they affect your life."  Despite answering consistently across my DWP assessment and tribunal, outcomes differed wildly.

Initially, I received 0 points across all activities, and the Mandatory Reconsideration upheld this.

The tribunal awarded points for washing (2), toileting (2), and communicating verbally (2).

I explained my hearing aid use and how noisy environments mask my deaf ear on both occasions. This inconsistency suggests decision outcomes may rely heavily on the specific assessors present. What are your thoughts?

Real-world examples:

Example 1: I could be struck by a car I don't hear approaching while crossing a road.

Example 2: I might miss vital travel announcements at a station. Which one is real-world example.

To Poppy123456:

You mentioned that "using the same evidence you previously used could see another refusal." I've since requested an MRI for my knees (previously I only submitted knee X-rays and an audiology report). I also have a more recent audiogram, In Addition, i have a plan to request a letter from physio and audiologist. Can I still submit the old along with the new, or ignore the old as they already have it?

Out of curiosity, what kind of evidence specifically related to arthritis would make a stronger case than an X-ray or MRI?

poppy123456

coffeetable said:

This inconsistency suggests decision outcomes may rely heavily on the specific assessors present. What are your thoughts?

I disagree, sorry. A lot of the time it will be because of poorly completed claim forms and not enough of information given. When this happens they will come to their own conclusions. 

coffeetable said:

Real-world examples:

Example 1: I could be struck by a car I don't hear approaching while crossing a road.

Example 2: I might miss vital travel announcements at a station. Which one is real-world example.

There lies your problem, those examples are not real world examples.  You're using the words "could or might be" You won't score any points for something that "may" happen to you.

A real world example would be something like this... on Tuesday I went out to the shop a couple of minutes from where I live, with my partner and stood to the side of a parked vehicle to look to see if there were any cars coming. I didn't see anything so attempted to cross the road but my wife pulled me back because she could hear a car coming round the corner, I didn't heat that car approach me and thankfully my partner was with me.

There's also safety while in the shower or bath, or safety when cooking, would you hear a smoke alarm going off? what would happen, if you were in the house alone and you couldn't hear those alarms?

Real world examples are real life things that actually happen to you. You need to explain in detail exactly what happened, where you were, did anyone see it and what the consequences were. 

What also concerns me is that you went to Tribunal and they would have should have applied the law correctly but you still didn't score enough of points needed for an award. 

Medical evidence is only useful if it states exactly how your conditions affect you and MRI's, X-rays etc will not tell them how you wash, dress, undress, cook, etc etc. 

Please have a read of the link I posted above. 

coffeetable

To Albus : "If you're going to reapply, the good news is you don't have to wait before you do."

You mean waiting time after application?

Albus_Scope

Apologies, I meant you don't have to wait a certain amount of time before putting in a fresh claim for PIP. 

coffeetable

Is that unusual? The doctor was too strict with me. She was the one who started the hearing with the first question: 'You don't have much medical evidence. I can see only an X-ray report and an audiogram report. Can you tell me exactly where you get pain?

poppy123456

coffeetable said:

Is that unusual? The doctor was too strict with me. She was the one who started the hearing with the first question: 'You don't have much medical evidence. I can see only an X-ray report and an audiogram report. Can you tell me exactly where you get pain?

Sorry but you haven't totally lost me... I have no idea what you mean. 

coffeetable

Sorry ignore the above message.

coffeetable

If sending same evidence again may end up refusal, then what else can I send as an fresh evidence?

poppy123456

Real world examples of exactly what happened the last time you attempted each descriptor that applies to you. You should aim for at least 2 per descriptor that applies to you and at least half an A4 side of paper per descriptor. 

Please take some time and have a good read of the link I posted earlier in the thread. It really does help to have some knowledge before applying again. 

coffeetable

I will read the instructions from the link you provided and get back to you after I gather evidence such as attending MRI before I apply again.

honeyhoney

@coffetable Listen to Poppy and as she advises, start with this:

 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities

I spent a week to understand the PIP criteria well. I compared my original form where I only got 2 points. then I came to the conclusion that this form did not show my difficulties in the context of PIP.

Then, reading the link above, I wrote 2 descriptors a day in my MR, using examples from my life. At the end, I was awarded 15 out of 2 points for daily living

rubin16

I agree listen to what Poppy is saying, I followed her advice last time my pip was up for renewal and did an A4 sheet for each discriptor giving real world examples of how things affect me and what the consquences were. As such I didn't need another assessment interview and just went with the evidence I provided (paper based assessment)

I would recommend writing atleast an a4 sheet of paper for each discriptor too and follow poppy's advice

coffeetable

Thanks for your advice Rubin and Honeyhoney. I realise my mistake, I admit I didn't make a good application initially. I will surely read in depth and apply again.

coffeetable

Hi all, I requested SOR from Tribunal 3 weeks ago, still I haven't heard anything from them, how long will it take to arrive? I sent the request letter by Signed for Royal mail. Tracking shows it has been received.

poppy123456

There are no timescales for this. They are usually done in the Judges own spare time. Once they are sent you will have 1 month. Have you found someone to take a look to see if they can find the error in law?  This is beyond Citizens Advice's capability and you will need something like Welfare Rights or a law centre. 

coffeetable

I have not planned to appeal at the upper tribunal; I have made so many mistakes since starting from the initial application until the tribunal. I have not understood and explained it the way it should. So I plan to reapply freshly again. But I just needed to see the Statement of Reasons where I am lacking in preparing food activities and some activities in mobility. As I scored 2 points each in bathing, toileting, and engaging in face-to-face activities, totaling 6 points, and 4 points in mobility from the tribunal, I have to find my mistakes, correct them, and use the correct words with real world examples when applying again. For example, I use a grip bar for toilet and bathing needs as an aid due to my osteoarthritis, and I scored 2 points each, but for cooking, it went wrong and scored 0 points, although I use a perching stool to sit and cook. Need to find out where I went wrong in the cooking section.