Green Paper Related Discussions

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  • ashmere
    ashmere Online Community Member Posts: 43 Empowering

    From Disability Rights UK

    The Universal Credit and PIP Bill: Our Concerns

    Our Handbook editor, Ian, speaks about the drastic consequences of the Government's Universal Credit and Personal Independence Payment Bill.

    In defending the Green Paper proposals, Liz Kendall told the Guardian “When we set out our reforms we promised to protect those most in need, particularly those who can never work” and “That is why we are putting additional protections on the face of the bill to support the most vulnerable and help people affected by the changes. These protections will be written into law – a clear sign they are non-negotiable.” 

    Now that the new Universal Credit and Personal Independence Payment Bill has been published, it is clear that these protections will not actually cover a very substantial proportion of those people Liz Kendall had in mind. 

    The key protection in the bill is that those with lifelong conditions would automatically get a higher rate of universal credit (equivalent to the current limited capability for work-related activity (LCWRA) element). It reflects the current criteria for the LCWRA element, in that you need to meet one of a set of stringent descriptors (set out in Section 7 of the Universal Credit regulations), but with the added provision that this must ‘constantly (apply) to the claimant and will do so for the rest of the claimant’s life’. The insertion of the word ‘constantly’ will make it extremely difficult for claimants with variable conditions, such as MS, Parkinsons Disease, Rheumatoid arthritis and schizophrenia, to meet the new criteria. In these cases, it will be rare for one of the criteria to be met constantly; ie all the time. The new criteria will therefore not protect many of the very groups of people that it would be reasonable to assume would need such protection – in fact, they are deliberately excluded.  

    The bill will also provide 13-weeks of additional protection to existing claimants affected by the cuts to the personal independence payment daily living component. The DWP describe this transitional cover as ‘one of the most generous ever’. However, this cover compares poorly with the equivalent Scottish short-term assistance, which allows payments of Scottish disability benefits to continue at the rate of the earlier award while you are challenging a decision. In March 2025, Social Security appeals were taking 32 weeks to clear; prior to this mandatory reconsiderations are taking more than ten weeks to clear – 42 weeks in total. A 13-week protection will be of very little use with such delays. 

    https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/universal-credit-and-pip-bill-our-concerns

  • Fuzzy200
    Fuzzy200 Online Community Member Posts: 35 Contributor

    I have just read this article from the I Paper. It makes m think if the Conservatives are really on our side

    Well done, Keir Starmer: benefits reform is long overdue

    What is the alternative?

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    Opinion

     Kwasi Kwarteng

    Former Conservative MP and chancellor

    20th June 2025 7:00 AM

    Listen

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    The Government could be rewarded at the next election (Photo: Christopher Furlong / POOL / AFP)

    Benefit reform? That is always a tricky subject for any government. For a Labour government, less than a year in office, it is the stuff of nightmares.

    Already the Government has got into a muddle on this difficult issue. The attempt to remove the winter fuel payment was, frankly, a political debacle. It has cost the Government a great deal of political capital, as was seen at the local elections in May this year.

    Anecdotally, this was the most salient issue on the doorstep.

    To recap, the Labour Government announced last summer that they would take away the £300 winter fuel payment from millions of pensioners. They spent 10 months defending the policy on prudent fiscal grounds. They then unceremoniously ditched the plan a few weeks ago.

    Of course, the damage had already been done. The policy was jettisoned not to win back voters, but to stop the bleeding, to staunch the draining of support, at subsequent elections this parliament. Continuing the policy threatened further disaster at the Scottish and Welsh Assembly elections next year.

    Reform UK, an amorphous insurgent political party, annihilated the Conservatives and the Government in the local elections in May. They are now comfortably ahead in most opinion polls. They are cynically trying to outflank Labour from the Left on this issue. They have even pledged to reverse the two-child cap on child benefits, a move Labour itself is not committed to.

    After U-turns in general, governments start to look weak. In this particular case, with respect to reducing public spending and pursuing reform of welfare benefits, this Government, despite its large majority, is starting to look like it doesn’t have the stomach for a fight.

    The cost to the public purse of benefits is, according to the Government’s own sources, set to increase by £18bn in the next four years to reach £70bn a year.

    The Government is briefing against any potential backbench rebellion by the usual leaks to the press. We read that a “Whitehall source” said the increase in spending meant that reform is necessary. “These figures show,” said the source, “that the current welfare system is unsustainable.”

    Sir Keir Starmer and Chancellor Rachel Reeves are surely right about this. They know that, without reform, the cost of benefits will rise inexorably. That would lead, as surely as night follows day, to higher taxes which would harm economic growth. Higher taxes to pay for welfare payments would also end up harming the very people Labour claim to support, ordinary hard-working people.

    The problem, as is often the case, is one of internal party management. For all my time in parliament, it was surprising how many of the political problems prime ministers faced revolved around dealing with awkward government backbenchers, who nominally, at least, were supposed to back the prime minister’s team.

    We all know about David Cameron and Theresa May. They had to deal with the European Research Group and other assorted bands of anti-EU zealots. Their time in office was terminated by this conflict.

    Labour leaders have always, conversely, had to deal with recalcitrant backbenchers on the Left, for whom no amount of public spending is ever enough to pay for their quest for social justice and greater equality.

    The rebels will argue that the mere act of reducing benefits will harm the most vulnerable. They will collectively say, “We did not become Labour MPs to reduce welfare payments to the poorest in society”.

    This sounds laudable, but what is the alternative? To pay for ever greater benefits handouts through ever-increasing taxes? That really would be unsustainable, as the Whitehall source said. Giving in to rebels now would rightly be judged to be a sign of weakness.

    Read Next

    Cutting PIP benefits will be Starmer’s undoing

    ANDREW FISHER

    Cutting PIP benefits will be Starmer’s undoing

    Read More

    Such a retreat would embolden the Left of the parliamentary party. The awkward squad would rebel even more frequently, in the confident expectation that the Government would yield even more ground.

    The alternative is fraught with political danger. We should be aware of that. Indeed, the disaster which enveloped the winter fuel payment question shows how susceptible a Labour government is to accusations of “betrayal”, whenever they try to reduce benefits.

    Pushing through reform could increase the split within the Labour Party. Already we can see how the hardcore Left and more pragmatic voices are divided. It could, if badly handled, lead to further alienation of some of Labour’s core support in the country.

    Yet benefit reform would be the right course of action for the country. And who knows? The Government could, ultimately, be rewarded by the wider electorate at the next General Election.

    Kwasi Kwarteng is a former Conservative MP. He served as chancellor between September and October 2022 under Liz Truss

  • jasminehoop
    jasminehoop Online Community Member Posts: 30 Contributor

    Trying to make himself quasi-relevant by tacitly supporting the Labour leadership? And that's just about Starmer's level - high praise from Travesty Truss's blundering Chancellor.

    What a joke they are 🙄

  • secretsquirrel1
    secretsquirrel1 Online Community Member Posts: 1,694 Championing

    I think she’s also said Vicky foxcroft is the only frontbencher to show concern about the cuts and there is no rebellion

  • alexroda
    alexroda Online Community Member Posts: 189 Empowering

    I’m sorry but this man should not be talking about economics.

    It’s incredible that MSM still have the balls to give him space to speak out. He nearly single-handedly sunk the country.

  • secretsquirrel1
    secretsquirrel1 Online Community Member Posts: 1,694 Championing

    Regarding the severe criteria do they mean a particular symptom has to be constant? I have ME and fibromyalgia which causes constant leg pain and fatigue. It’s every day . Are they saying that counts or if I take pain meds and get a few hours respite that no longer counts as constant ? Same as say eating, if you need prompting to eat will that not count if you eat a biscuit without being told to ?

  • alexroda
    alexroda Online Community Member Posts: 189 Empowering

    coming from her, I would not be surprised if that’s just another lie.

  • Ranald
    Ranald Online Community Member Posts: 1,247 Championing

    It has been said countless times, those that are considered rebelling, they will keep their powder dry until the bill progresses further.

    Why risk their career when there may be serious revisions, reverse ferreting, climb downs, u-turns, call it what you will.

  • secretsquirrel1
    secretsquirrel1 Online Community Member Posts: 1,694 Championing

    I think they’ll be some that are brave and will speak out straight away as they have done and those watching to see what’s happening. Safety in numbers . One said if Starmer takes away the whip from them all they’ll just start another party . Now Vicky’s resigned the whip it may give them more courage to follow suit 🤞

  • apples
    apples Online Community Member Posts: 516 Empowering
  • Ranald
    Ranald Online Community Member Posts: 1,247 Championing
    edited June 20

    She is still a Labour MP, she just resigned as a government whip.

    LOL, I remember Wendy Morton resigning as a whip during Truss' brief tenure, after a bit of argy bargy in the voting lobbies! I can imagine Therese Coffey throwing her weight about, but weedy Rees Mogg? The mind boggles!

  • Ranald
    Ranald Online Community Member Posts: 1,247 Championing
    edited June 20

    Do you refer to Kamikaze Kwasi, lol? Not read the article but guessing.

    Old Etonians never apologise, they were born to rule!

  • secretsquirrel1
    secretsquirrel1 Online Community Member Posts: 1,694 Championing

    Ranald what do you make of the severe conditions criteria? The part that says constantly is rather ambiguous. Do they mean the symptoms that get you the award must be 24/7 with no respite from pain or fatigue etc . Is that their way of turning people down. The pip test says you only need symptoms 50% I think.

  • Ranald
    Ranald Online Community Member Posts: 1,247 Championing
    edited June 20

    I'm afraid I haven't read any severe conditions criteria, nor indeed much else, just the odd newspaper article. I refuse to spend time analysing the first reading of a bill.

    I imagine they are referring to progressive, incurable conditions, ones that have been diagnosed by NHS clinicians.

  • secretsquirrel1
    secretsquirrel1 Online Community Member Posts: 1,694 Championing

    I think incurable conditions what sum up us all really. Most conditions seem to be treatable at best . My ME isn’t even treatable

  • Ranald
    Ranald Online Community Member Posts: 1,247 Championing

    I think they are hoping, by ambiguous wording, to trip up those whose conditions fluctuate.

  • JasonRA
    JasonRA Online Community Member Posts: 264 Trailblazing

    There were mentions here that whenever benefit cuts/reforms come to the table it's like bartering, you start from a high position then you bring the price down so it can sell.

    As much as Labour would love to, as much as the political establishment would love to they can't go full throttle.

  • MW123
    MW123 Scope Member Posts: 1,273 Championing

    That’s the issue, isn’t it? There’s never a clear list of which conditions are considered “severe” enough to be exempt from reassessments. Everything is handled on a case-by-case basis. They consider whether a condition is lifelong, progressive, or incurable, whether someone is likely to remain out of work long term, and whether they meet the LCWRA criteria. But they never name specific conditions, so the system remains vague and inconsistent.

    Something like ME might qualify if the evidence is presented strongly enough, but it all depends on how the case is written up and what the assessor decides on the day. Two people with the same diagnosis can be treated completely differently.

    One of my colleagues was deeply distressed about her sister, who was wheelchair bound and suffering from small cell lung cancer. Just a week before she passed away, she was still required to attend a meeting with a job coach to prove she had been actively looking for work. It’s hard to comprehend how someone in such a clearly terminal state could be put through that process.

    But because doctors couldn’t say with certainty that she would die within a year, she didn’t qualify for the Special Rules. So despite the seriousness of her condition, she was treated as eligible to look for work.

    I want to believe that the new rules will offer better protection for people like my colleague’s sister in the future. But that’s the core of the problem. The rules are often written in ways that leave too much open to interpretation, depending on how the assessor views the situation. And that makes the system feel unpredictable and, at times, deeply unfair and even cruel.

  • secretsquirrel1
    secretsquirrel1 Online Community Member Posts: 1,694 Championing

    Omg that’s just terrible. Things like that should not be happening. My GP asked me recently who makes these decisions are they Drs etc . I said no at best a nurse but it depends on how truthful and nice they are .
    If these changes go through they should at least use NHS guidelines and not the opinion of the assessor. When I read about the criteria I read it as you firstly have to not only qualify for lcwra but for severe it has to be constant. So will that mean your condition has to be constant or the symptoms you get awarded on constant. Example if you get it on the mobility do you have to have the same level mobility 24/7 or are you allowed good days as you are with pip ? If you have an eating disorder and need prompting is it for everything you eat or if they say would you go and eat a biscuit without prompting and you say maybe, then you fail . And of course you could pass all these tests and fail the 4 points . I don’t think they’ve thought it through hence no real details.