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Complex PTSD and no help available
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@HollyGCat Way back, you wrote:
".i..is frustrating when you want to find a way to live a life you can be content with. Feel of some value. My career was in the public services and that was where I felt I was doing something worthwhile. I used it even when I look back. Losing it was a significant trauma in its own right. I felt I had fought for that career, fought to get there, then, I was put back where I belong. With no hope of ever returning from it."
I resonated so strongly with this that I had to take a break from reading this thread for 2 days. Thank you!
I'm 99.9% certain that I have C-PTSD, although I've been diagnosed with Borderline PD, Avoidant PD, Narcissistic PD (!), refractory major depression, dysthymia, generalised anxiety disorder, etc. over the years. Like many people with childhood trauma, I decided at some point that I needed to be completely independent - physically, emotionally, financially, etc. - so I never had to risk being let down or hurt by anyone ever again. I did that. I worked out like a friend, studied incredibly hard, got the job of my dreams (with a good salary and extras), a good relationship (I never trusted anyone completely, but I trusted him more than anyone before him), savings, retirement savings, etc. Of course, underneath it all I loathed myself and felt that I was worthless, and I periodically ended up so burnt out that I got very sick, which triggered severe depressive episodes, and I had to take multiple years off from school/uni/grad school/work. My achievements in education and my career were the entire basis of my self-esteem, partially because they were the only thing about me that got my Dad to pay attention to me, so running myself into the ground was a perfectly reasonablem thing to do over and over...
Of course, I was miserable, anxious and depressive much of the time, and I kept putting myself in situations that hurt me, but I had that one source of pride in myself, that one thing that I liked about myself, and that one thing that I felt allowed me to contribute to the world. It also helped with the financially safe thing.
Then I hurt my back, had surgery, and became disabled by chronic pain at the age of 34. I lost my place in my PhD program, lost my job, spent my savings and then retirement savings on treatment, and finally had to accept that there was no going back - my career was over. My partner left me. My Dad blamed me. I cracked and lost my sh*t. 11 years later, losing my career is still the most traumatic part of it (although the rest was traumatic too!) Nobody has ever understood that when I say that losing my career was a major trauma, I mean it, just as much as the other traumatic things in my history.
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Hallo, Waylay. You surprised me by saying people can't understand why losing your career bothered you. Duh.... why can't they understand that? ...If they lost their careers, wouldn't it bother them? Nowt so strange as folk
Struggling, I'm wondering if somehow they put you in a different category than themselves, almost as if someone should pick the correct item on a list of personal troubles, and ignore the rest.
To take it to extremes, maybe for your own amusement ask them what in their view is the single correct thing to be bothered about, in the hypothetical situation of a woman who has lost her job, her pregnancy, her flat and her boyfriend at around the same time her mum dies and her dog gets run over.? ! -
Waylay and Holly I found your posts very relatable, particularly regarding the sense of self worth. I'm lucky, I work, tho I struggle particularly with concentration. I run my own business but it feels vulnerable at times and if I lost that I don't think I would have anything. My work sounds interesting, it is to do with wildlife - however when people praise me or say that it's interesting etc i don't feel anything, it never fills that void.
Other than my daughters, I have no biological family as such, just very occasional meetings with my birth mother (triggering for me and she has her own family with her husband + three adult children). I do see my daughters regularly but the breakdown of my marriage, coinciding with diagnosis of CPTSD has probably been the single most traumatic thing that happened to me since childhood. I'm not sure if it's a consequence of the condition but I think I sought responsibility (career and family) as a way of finding self worth, but at the same time felt and behaved in ways to sabotage all that I had. Despite what I did or strive for I can't escape the feelings - so I realise that I have to work on me rather than external factors.
On reflection, splitting with my ex was probably the best thing for me as I'd married a catholic with their own trauma (TRIGGER - I was abused by Catholics in and outside the home) - there were aspects of the relationship that were maintaining factors, probably for both of us. It was ironic as the psychiatric advice I was getting was that the best place for me was to stay in the family.
As Waylay quoted you Holly 'frustrating when you want to find a way to live a life you can be content with.' as above, I think this can come from being ok with who you are, and this is a very difficult place to be with when during those most sensitive periods of your childhood you are made to feel that you are fundamentally worthless. It's still with me and close to me, those feelings and thoughts from my earliest memories 'what did I do wrong, what is wrong with me' that's all I ever felt (or at times didn't feel, wasn't allowed to feel which is when I just cut off mentally/emotionally - dissociated), the pain is always there but I am now able to use this to do the re-parenting work that has helped me so much in recent years (credit to Bradshaw and Walker).
I think some post previously mention the benefit of CPTSD groups, when I look at book reviews e.g. Pete Walker on Amazon i think wow there seems to be quite a few people who relate to this. I used to attend an after adoption group for adult adoptees, maybe nearly 10 years ago. Looking back I think each person in the group had CPTSD, a lot of the focus was on discussion of searches for parents, family situations etc and very little on emoting work. I think CPTSD is an extreme end of unhealthy emotional development in childhood - I think is almost endemic in our society.
I've been wondering how a group would work, I like this forum because when members post relatable experiences it helps me emote, feel and reassure myself that I'm ok. What happened to me wasn't my fault. I hope others are able to feel this too and that everyone is worthwhile.
and finally, a really interesting TED Talk from Dan Siegal, illuminating his observation of how medical professionals are not taught to self soothe and often come to hate their patients because they can't bear to be with the feelings being shown. He looked into this as he couldn't understand why he was feeling so irritable with his young son when he could be so compassionate with others. I really like the fist analogy of the brain it's something I try and visual, my higher brain reattaching itself to the reptilian brain I'm feeling hypo/hyper.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-BJpvdBBp4
Best wishes and thank you to all for posting on here.
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ps I just also noticed this https://www.napier.ac.uk/research-and-innovation/impact-case-studies/traumatic-stress-disorder-classification at least one academic in the UK finally looking at CPTSD
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Thanks for link JeremyJ.
Oh dear. Please can i go back in time to fix things so the parents of Sigmund Freud never meet? The damage that man did has merely been perpetuated ever since. Can you believe it, the misogynistic fantasies of that creature are still, to this day, actually put on the syllabus by men who are allowed to 'teach' students?
Sorry, this is not to anyone here, but I'm feeling pretty sarcastic about people out there in the misery industry.
So, sarcasm alert....
Every expert is a man. Of course they are.
Every abused child is male. The only trauma that ever happens to adults is to men, and only to men in the army. The only response to all trauma is becoming criminal. ....Who knew?
....Well, as Adrian Mole might remark, any fule no.
There are a couple of non- fools, in Canada. Not real people, of course, and obviously not experts, merely women. For a couple of decades they have been devoted to getting U.N. recognition of Non State Torture.
Silly little Canadian geese that they are, they are brazenly pretending that girl children are abused, often by owners/parents , or with parental collusion. They seem even to think that female castration and group rape is quite unpleasant, even for females.
They have noticed women child abuse survivors are too stupid to do the correct, manly thing of joining the army or becoming criminals . Instead, they typically go and get themselves into abusive relationships as adults. They were groomed by their childhoods to expect nothing else.
Those Canadian women would bitterly fight against anyone using the word 'disorder'. They don't like any connection with the ptsd or the complex ptsd bandwagon jumpers. The women they care about are people they truly care about, and really assist in every way needed. They believe they are real people, to be valued and respected, not labelled mentally ill.
They champion and support and advocate on behalf of women who have responded in exactly the right way to a wrong situation, in whatever way kept them alive, despite impossible power abuse , and indescribable suffering, usually from childhood.
Surviving prolonged near death experiences, as child and as adult, despite being helpless, isolated, undefended and female is proof of superhuman resilience and extraordinary personal strengths but is not, they believe, a proof of madness.
........at this point, I believe the convention is I must say Harrumph, then the grumpiness is over!
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Waylay said:
I resonated so strongly with this that I had to take a break from reading this thread for 2 days. Thank you!
Apologies for the bold text, just an attempt to show more easily which of us wrote what. As I read this I thought, this person has such similar thoughts and behaviours to me. I totally connected with what you have written Waylay!
I wanted to say that all these names we get, they don't matter. If I went to five different psychiatrist's, I suspect I would get five new diagnosis. What matters is are we treated fairly and without discrimination with them. My experience is no we are not.
The PD's, Borderline and Avoidant fit so closely to CPTS (disorder or injury). I read some of the NICE guidance on Borderline, thanks to @dolfrog (I chose to start with BPD before the PTSD stuff/as I thought they were difficult to follow, and thought I'd leave the main one till last).
I wonder, are they written like this 'so extensive and in complicated language to exclude people like me from understanding them?' Could do with your brain Waylay as starting a PHD is an achievement in its own right!
But what I mainly read was that all have childhood trauma causes and are so strikingly similar, that there is no wonder they are diagnosed together or in varying orders.
I would say that the so called 'unpopular PD's' which the media use to suggest danger to the public through rubbish research and script writing is an absolute disgrace. When I told my former Chief Inspector that I had CPTSD, she was okay, but when I mentioned I had significant traits of Borderline, I watched her expression change to one of disgust. It was the start of me being pushed out. I couldn't comprehend why they were so harsh to a vulnerable poorly woman who had excellent service. But to me now, it says everything about them and nothing about me. So, I will be seeing them in Court at some point for disability discrimination.
Their ignorant and cruel discrimination left me declining over two years to such low points. Everything about me declined. TRIGGER ## Mentions Suicide/Self Harm
I was detained for my safety one day, I was under section and left by my employers alone for a good 15 mins. I dissociated/needed to escape/people in the ward looking at me. So I took a hospital gown and attempted to hang myself. I didn't want to die, just to escape. I was close to succeeding but a nurse came in and discovered me and screamed. I had the marking on my neck six months later. My employer, buried this with no feedback to me about how I had been left at such risk. I should under a S136 have been under observation.
I'm jumping about Waylay, my apologies. I was trying to say that what you wrote is what I have lived, and my diagnosis is C-PTSD with Dissociation - significant traits of BPD, and then the avoidance stuff and high risk of suicide/self harm all comes with it...and the usual depression/anxiety. I can see the only difference to our diagnosis therefore is the people who heard what we had to say, have different knowledge!
Cynic me thinks that some diagnosis are given less treatment by trusts, perhaps that clouds decisions when handing these labels out.
I think injury is probably better than the disorder at the end of PTSD, but I care more about how people treat me than the label.
The way I view the PD's is that there are loads of people out there with no diagnosis who are the most unpleasant people, horrid personalities. Well us borderlines care, feel things deeply, we are compassionate and empathetic (so a bit at odds with the narcissistic, I don't see how they can give you both but hey ho, so what, you are a person who has been traumatised and you've got some scars from it, who cares what they call them!)
I'm 99.9% certain that I have C-PTSD, although I've been diagnosed with Borderline PD, Avoidant PD, Narcissistic PD (!), refractory major depression, dysthymia, generalised anxiety disorder, etc. over the years. Like many people with childhood trauma,
Waylay you said; I decided at some point that I needed to be completely independent - physically, emotionally, financially, etc. - so I never had to risk being let down or hurt by anyone ever again. I did that. I worked out like a friend, studied incredibly hard, got the job of my dreams (with a good salary and extras), a good relationship (I never trusted anyone completely, but I trusted him more than anyone before him), savings, retirement savings, etc. Of course, underneath it all I loathed myself and felt that I was worthless, and I periodically ended up so burnt out that I got very sick, which triggered severe depressive episodes, and I had to take multiple years off from school/uni/grad school/work. My achievements in education and my career were the entire basis of my self-esteem, partially because they were the only thing about me that got my Dad to pay attention to me, so running myself into the ground was a perfectly reasonablem thing to do over and over...
Of course, I was miserable, anxious and depressive much of the time, and I kept putting myself in situations that hurt me, but I had that one source of pride in myself, that one thing that I liked about myself, and that one thing that I felt allowed me to contribute to the world. It also helped with the financially safe thing.
This was exactly what I did (not the education bit - but I worked and was driven and I was more determined than anyone I met. Like you, I never completely trust, I try with my husband and daughter, but there is always that child coming into my head telling me that I'm worthless, and they don't really want to be with me.
Then I hurt my back, had surgery, and became disabled by chronic pain at the age of 34. I lost my place in my PhD program, lost my job, spent my savings and then retirement savings on treatment, and finally had to accept that there was no going back - my career was over. My partner left me. My Dad blamed me. I cracked and lost my sh*t. 11 years later, losing my career is still the most traumatic part of it (although the rest was traumatic too!) Nobody has ever understood that when I say that losing my career was a major trauma, I mean it, just as much as the other traumatic things in my history.
I've had comments that I am lucky because I retired young on a pension. I had years of a career ahead of me. I would have continued with the same determination. Nothing fun or exciting or worthwhile about my life now. Sure I have an adult child who I love, but she has her life to live and I do not want to burden her with my trauma.
When I lost my job, they retired me onto my birthday, so every year I can remember that it was the day I lost the one thing I was proud of that I did for myself. Of course that doesn't mean I am not proud of my child, but that is for things she does. This career was my life, and I was good at it, respected, helped people...
So my lucky life is staying in a room with little or no stimulation and seeing next to no one. Unable to get myself well enough to cook a meal (loved cooking) or play an instrument (loved music).. I feel worthless now, and the system is designed to keep me down.
The day I got my record of service, they sent me a piece of paper without my rank and no level of performance on it. Usual would be to see both, it is akin to a negative reference.
All career appraisals I had over 25 years were graded with 'exceptional', I had one 5 days before I had my further trauma and breakdown. It said highly capable of operating at next rank, fully support her application. All bar one graded exceptional with one at very good across about 20 measures.
TRIGGER - Mentions Sexual Offences/Losing your identity
So I looked at this piece of paper which basically said I was nothing, had been nothing, and I took an overdose...I cry more over this piece of paper than I do over the abuse/sexual assaults/rapes/and some work related stuff. It is right up there! It destroys any last sense of who I was. I am now officially no one.
So sorry for the length, but I wanted to say how much your post also floored me. I'm so sorry we have both been written off, but I want to say this...people who get accepted onto PHD causes should never be written off. People with our determination should not let them write us off. Please post more, I would love if there were a way we could both find to get back what we needed so much.
Thank you.
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JeremyJ said:
Other than my daughters, I have no biological family as such, just very occasional meetings with my birth mother (triggering for me and she has her own family with her husband + three adult children). I do see my daughters regularly but the breakdown of my marriage, coinciding with diagnosis of CPTSD has probably been the single most traumatic thing that happened to me since childhood. I'm not sure if it's a consequence of the condition but I think I sought responsibility (career and family) as a way of finding self worth, but at the same time felt and behaved in ways to sabotage all that I had. Despite what I did or strive for I can't escape the feelings - so I realise that I have to work on me rather than external factors.
As did Waylay and I, and probably others on here. It shows how strong we are, that we fight to get that self sufficiency.
I have a half sister and my daughter. My mother I met, she spent a year in my company and then when I was 19 decided she wanted rid of me. She achieved this in a way to maximise my distress and I stopped feeling at all for about 11 years due to this. My relationship with my sister is toxic. She was brought up by our mother, she says she got it worse...now my mother is highly unpleasant, but my sister has no understanding at all of what it is like to feel you don't belong. She also have no idea what its like to be abused, so, whilst not a competition, she dismisses me, and worse still, I let her! This annoys me, I allow her to manipulate me, use me, put me down...all for that last connection with my mother. I feel ashamed I can't just stand up and say go away you are both as bad as each other. Working on it!
You said
"It's still with me and close to me, those feelings and thoughts from my earliest memories 'what did I do wrong, what is wrong with me' that's all I ever felt (or at times didn't feel, wasn't allowed to feel which is when I just cut off mentally/emotionally - dissociated), the pain is always there but I am now able to use this to do the re-parenting work that has helped me so much in recent years (credit to Bradshaw and Walker)."
This is so hard to work on, I have thought this before I even knew it. How to change a belief you hold so firmly for well over 40 years. Confirmed to you over and over by others. Self-destructing just to prove how worthless and unlovable you are. Hurting yourself over and over.
I think some post previously mention the benefit of CPTSD groups, when I look at book reviews e.g. Pete Walker on Amazon i think wow there seems to be quite a few people who relate to this. I used to attend an after adoption group for adult adoptees, maybe nearly 10 years ago. Looking back I think each person in the group had CPTSD, a lot of the focus was on discussion of searches for parents, family situations etc and very little on emoting work. I think CPTSD is an extreme end of unhealthy emotional development in childhood - I think is almost endemic in our society. Agreed, and this is why its overlooked. I read that two in three adopted children never try to find their birth parents. That awful program on ITV which paints a picture of perfect mothers just wanting the best for their babies and welcoming them with open arms. What a load of rubbish! Might be like that for the lucky few, but most of us don't get that. I still find it a head '&*&*' that I managed to have two mothers who hated me! Way to go!! Definitely loveable then! I never minded that she had given me up as a baby, it was her telling me to do one or she knew people who would get rid of me when I was 19 that played with my emotions a little.
TRIGGER - Really poor behaviour!!
My household was cold. I used to hide behind the furniture. Food was not freely given. Abuse was. I searched my mums room (a sure beating had I been found) at 17, for the first time I say my birthname, found out I had been fostered. It was odd to see another name. Its why I think I don't connect with any name. None of them seem to belong to me. So I have opted for Holly, I get to choose. Any way, my reaction at 17, well I was devastated, crying, went to the local pub and in true self destruct, found the first letch (well in his 40's) I could to shag me! Really helped with the self worth bit...I don't know why, I guess I just wanted to confirm a little bit more how nothing I was, I didn't even have a real name. Probably TMI, sorry all...guess I am just not that bothered about humiliating myself just a bit more.
I've been wondering how a group would work, I like this forum because when members post relatable experiences it helps me emote, feel and reassure myself that I'm ok. What happened to me wasn't my fault. I hope others are able to feel this too and that everyone is worthwhile.
and finally, a really interesting TED Talk from Dan Siegal, illuminating his observation of how medical professionals are not taught to self soothe and often come to hate their patients because they can't bear to be with the feelings being shown. He looked into this as he couldn't understand why he was feeling so irritable with his young son when he could be so compassionate with others. I really like the fist analogy of the brain it's something I try and visual, my higher brain reattaching itself to the reptilian brain I'm feeling hypo/hyper.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-BJpvdBBp4
Best wishes and thank you to all for posting on here.
Thanks for all the links, am going to work my way through this week.
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@newborn - my humour is sarcasm so I appreciated your harrumph post, nothing wrong with a bit of straight forward saying it as it is:) I will try to lose the term disorder as I think injury is much more fitting...
@SurvivingTara - I'm trying to keep off the full dose of sleeping tablets. Its really tough. Next to no sleep. Any tips? I feel shocked awake but am exhausted, hence the 2 AM lengthy postings!!!
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Oh dear Holly G Cat, Waylay and others....
In 2019 I am so, so saddened that people on this planet are still being dehumanized by some and still having their life events suppressed, dismissed and unheard, under the auspice of care.
Yes, Holly G Cat they do write in complicated academic / scientific language and handwriting (Drs) to exclude. You have a good brain and you are doing well on your particular journey, which is pertinent to you.
Labelling is another particular feature which stigmatizes, and serves certain functions in this so called modern day system.
It really is very disturbing, sad and terrifying as I listen to some, still saying today ` they are detaining someone for their own safety`. They are not doing it for safety and care. That is a myth they want us to believe.
If we connected with a person, and understood the process that they were going through, `a spiritual and emotional crisis`, triggered by life events, and that they are very scared, with what is happening, with the emergent feelings, and we could hold them in a safe space (not in a hospital in unfamiliar surroundings) and explain what is happening, there would be no need to detain anyone.
As so called trained professionals in society we are treating people wrongly, and brutally so, it`s endemic.
This detention and certification, which is still taking place, is pushing people to act and behave in dramatic, fearful and suicidal ways, (folks already fearful are not being heard, or understood anymore, why they feel like this and assisted through it), it is stimulated because firstly already fearful tramatized people are pushed around physically, in an unfamiliar place, and no one is actively listening and hearing the emotional pain. They are scared, and the natural fight and flight system has been activated. Which the services are trying to quell.
We need to be with that emotional pain and discover why, (the system we are in now does not cater for this)
Not seek to dismiss experince in environments, as many are taught to do, (because society now fears truth, awareness and emotions)..
However, as a society, medical and service professionals are not trained to be with you in that moment and understand (just subdue you) , only quieten you down with medication or brute force, supposedly for your own good (it is NOT for your own good) when one is in crisis and needs assistance. However, we have not got time, a quick fix is needed, a cosh. How awful.
This is shocking how people are still treated....... I am so, so sorry many of you have had to endure this brutality during crisis, because you asked for help!!!!. No one heard you.....Suppressing anyone means they are NOT heard, and have never been.. Such a tragedy !!!!!!
I hear and feel all of your sharing and emotional pain, through these posts!!!!!!!
I wish I could totally change the clinical system and there was a holding space somewhere in all communities where people in crisis could stay freely with care and process what they were going through. It is a natural process given the circumstances that triggered the crisis and distress.
That is why Catherine Lucas in the UK in 2004 set up the spiritual crisis network. Because the medical model was failing people. The psychologists are TRANS PERSONAL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OM6FBwrXOuEA Sharing about a spiritual crisis after suffering trauma, and hospital and how it stopped her transformation.
WWW.SpiritualCrisisNetwork.org.uk
Do be careful though with looking up things in your area, as the spiritual crisis network has sometimes been infiltrated or hijacked in some areas in UK by the NHS clinical mental health. Not all though....
http://www.matthewgorner.com/how-spiritual-emergency-is-supported-in-the-uk/
The spiritual crisis network held a conference at the Mundersley Hospital to try to educate the staff, not sure if this has had much effect.. Don`t know..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcsseZ6RWUMOne person`s experience at the conference, how he was labelled.
Christina. Grof & Stanislav. Grof set up a similar space in America. (more below).
(These are only a few)
Holly G Cat I understand you are trying to keep off the sleeping tablets, reducing them does have withdrawal effects and sensations, and it does not mean you are going backwards in your recovery, just coping with effects of drugs, which mask the real issues. I sleep in bouts of a few hours, and am awake at night, and OK that.
The inner feelings and angers at how you have been treated, and your core woundings may come up acutely in the wee small hours, this is normal. It is important to have perhaps a partner hold your hand and allow you to acknowledge it`s ok what you’re feeling, you’re feeling these sensations etc. Those who are alone need to discover a soothing activity if the head is like a gramaphone record or CD. It can be quite scary though.
Fighting thoughts or feelings and wanting how you feel gone, it will give your hurting inner child that is crying out to be heard, more feelings. You are experiencing effects of trauma and crisis, not heard or facilitated. That is the way it works.
Gradually move towards acceptance of lovely Holly G Cat, this is the medication you need. Also, hug yourself, this touch method helps, sometimes.
No it will not be easy, it is exhausting this awakening and transformation process, and you can`t rush it and get it over with, as the medical model says.
Continued.............
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Continued,,
Soon this historical evidence of care for others will be lost, which is....
Throughout history people in intense crisis, triggered by a variety of life events or traumas ( e.g. loss of anything, caregiver abandonment, or various life stage events), were acknowledged by their tribe or group /culture, mystic – wise person, to be in a personal inner transformation process, or in crisis and awakening to truth, to what is really going on in life and core wounds coming up for healing. Today we are disconnected and scattered, cowering fearfully behind closed doors.
In yester year society then cared for people and genuinely supported them through their crisis, (no matter how long it took) keeping people away from them, offering sanctuary and suspending demands, like work or housekeeping, whilst in spiritual emergency, so that they could emerge into community once again, stronger and with fortitude.
Respected members of the community had also been through traumas and spiritual crisis. Others recognised-related and empathized as to what you were going through, and honoured the expression of creativity, feelings, sensations and symptoms.. They didn`t stigmatise, reject and frown, looking down on people, as many employers and family do today.
Colourful and dramatic rages, feelings, anxieties and fears along with suicidal feelings were understood and felt with the trust that they would bring you through this crisis and you would return to the world aware, enlightened and benefit others, being of service in community. This can`t happen today, we are totally rejected by the clinical services, when in crisis.
Once the wise elders in community acknowledged the spiritual, (not rule bound religiosity for that is Man made and twisted truth), aspect of us, which is part of the whole being.
With the advent of dualism, materialism and modern science and the industrial age in western society this tolerant, nurturing, and compassionate way of being in community and attitude to those who were having a meltdown, traumatized by loss or a life event, drastically changed. The mind body split occurred and spirituality (in favour of religiosity) was taboo.
What was once acceptable behaviour and acceptable reality was narrowed to include only those aspects of existence that material science deemed `normal` and they could get into the lab and measure.
Spirituality, or an inner journey, or a personal crisis was exiled, from a scientific world, it could not be seen or felt by some.
Today we have, what we have, (and we all know about that!!) compartmentalized, diagnostic labelling so called care, devoid of many things and treatment with the chemical cosh, where one is tabbed, controlled, suppressed and managed for life.
The care industry gets profit. People are guinea pigs and test these chemicals, on behalf of the companies, and human beings dutifully take them.
Therefore western culture today adopts a restricted and rigid interpretation of what is supposed to be `normal` in human experience and behaviour and those that are displaying feelings, crying, angry, behave according to traumatized people, talk about awakening, an inner journey into healing, or the spiritual side of life, are not accepted and thought of as insane, or brain dis-eased and worthy of diagnosis, certification and medical treatment. This is fact we need to realise the system.
In 2019, human beings are caught in a trap of being diagnosed and labelled so drugs can be prescribed.
Managed, manipulated and controlled within certain parameters or theories of the day.
The apothecaries, with herbalists, (such as Nicholas Culpeper B 1616 an English Physitian and educated at Cambridge) and healers were outlawed big time after 1940`s (OK there must have been some frauds but not all herbalists, healers or acupuncturists were ), as the medical model of health took over mainstream care (if you can call it that??), and the pharmaceutical/chemical industry grew. They had to have a market, we were that market, human consumers, physicians the legal gatekeepers/prescribers.
Psychiatry then arose and created biological explanations for certain mental states, and they had to fit into the medical model of health.
Psychiatry linked with pharmaceutical companies and found powerful ways of controlling mental disease (no evidence of a brain or chemical imbalance, but they said they had found evidence), of unknown origin with drugs, (inhumane) ECT, and other barbarous treatments.
Psychiatry was now firmly within the medical discipline. Mental dis -ease was extended to include many states of mind and traumatic experiences in life, and because loss, trauma, or a societal event, which were natural conditions and states of mind given one`s circumstances, which affected us, they were deemed abnormal. The now medical profession (with all their rules, regulations and legalism) did this to link processes to a diagnosable biological cause.
The process of spiritual emergence (TRIGGERED) by loss (personal or community) of any kind, a life stage event, trauma in community, and an inner journey or awakening, with its certain states of mind, feelings and behaviours, in general which societies had been dealing with for centuries, and which is helping to reveal our deep seated core wounds, was suddenly pathologised and labelled as an illness.
There is now no-one to go through this with you.
This is where we are now.
We are supposed to talk about our state of mind, condition, disability (difference), within the parameters of dis-ease or a medical model. (have you ever wondered why a medic or psychiatrist has poo pooed you, dismissed your speech, feeling states etc and labelled you with a label as, defective, not good enough, something wrong with you etc ?? Serving this purpose re-enforcing of early wounds.)
Well, those of us who were going through an inner transformation, triggered by loss, a caregiver (in or outside of the womb, yes, the foetus hears and reacts) or been traumatized by an event within the community, abuse, bullying, emotionally neglected etc, etc have now been labelled as sick and in need of suppressive treatment with dangerous chemical medication.
The body that speaks its mind, (Debbie Shapiro) has according to the medical model to be suppressed.
Society can`t cope with all this developmental trauma, abandonment of others, CPTSD, employment bullying and abuse etc, no place for it. Quieten it and us down, so we don`t reveal what a disconnected, left brain, sad, abusive, inhumane society we have become. Destroying ourselves and the planet.
As earthlings we tarred, feathered and burned at the stake herbalists and healers and those who would not conform to what the so called scientists were bringing into being.
We are doing this today in a so called `more civilized` quiet way, we are thwarting a natural human process - awakening-spiritual crisis and dark night of the soul ( triggered due to our particular trauma, loss or life event Grof & Grof), with chemicals which tar and feather the mind, setting it on fire, destruction with ECT or chemicals to burn away symptoms and feelings which are vital messages to us, as the body speaks its mind.
Therefore, now if one experiences loss of some sort, a job, child, parent, or family, is traumatized by some life event, and they have emotional or psychosomatic symptoms, they cry, have meltdown, behave aggressively, (because they are frightened) they are automatically classified as having `a medical condition` and their dis-ease (not at ease) is seen as of unknown origin or fitted into a diagnosis criteria for drug treatment, and certification.
Many people who visit a GP are going through the natural healing process from a life event which has caused spiritual crisis and are going through spiritual emergence, are automatically put in a category as being mentally ill. Especially as their experiences, are causing a crisis in their lives or creating so called difficulties for family life, (where is the understanding and compassion here ?).
For as Herman in her book Trauma & Recovery says psychological trauma is an affliction of the powerless. At the moment of trauma be it abandonment, abuse or emotional neglect, the victim no matter what age is rendered helpless by overwhelming forces, and overwhelm the ordinary human adaptation to life, threatening existence or bodily integrity.
However, in the last couple of decades the spiritual life of a person has been slowly reintroduced into mainstream culture, (eg Bernie Segal, Deepak Chopra, Lama Surya Das, Tara Brach, Louise Hay, Grof & Grof etc) through renewed interest in sacred systems found in Eastern traditions, alternative ways of healing have slowly re emerged.
With Bach flower remedies by Dr E Bach a medically trained GP who left mainstream care because he said the medical model of health would never find a cure for dis-ease unless you treated states of mind-feelings and cared compassionately for human beings.
Western mystical literature and Native American traditions have slowly also resurfaced, together with transpersonal physchotherapy.
As Micheal Mirdad in The book` Dark Night Of The Soul` says, when life events trigger a physical and mental crisis, you are not going crazy your just awakening.
You need genuine unconditional tribal –group community support. Feelings and symptoms need to be acknowledged no matter how painful. Running away from them in busyness activities keeps the trauma-crisis-experience going. Healing comes in relationships, as we are wounded in relationship, we don`t have to be ashamed of needing a trusted supportive other, to awaken from the trance of unworthiness..
Many people in the world are waking up now and realizing what has been done to the human race, and that most of the natural processes on the journey of life, have been medicalized or pathologized.
Therefore, the natural processes (feelings, having symptoms, crying, feeling isolated, lost, suicidal angry, fearful etc) which individuals go though when loss, unemployment, abuse, violence, childbirth, divorce, bullying, accident, menopause onset or experienced developmental trauma and emotional neglect etc occurs and triggers emotional and physical states brings on the dark night of the soul. The challenging period in your life when you feel lost, confused, betrayed, let down by people, afraid, or exhausted. This challenge is a transformational process in life, you will never be the same, and you will see things differently.
So, coming into present day time 2019. If we have been pathologised our natural reactions, states of mind or behaviour to any of the above are considered abnormal, we will have visited in distress a GP not understanding the process and (without a genuine understanding of the process) been given drugs which will suppress the transformational natural process, of spiritual awakening/dark night of the soul/healing and emergence, known to Man since time began.
Therefore, today we are faced with pathologisation of natural and disturbing natural processes, that we have been taught to fear, because much support and understanding has been dismissed from our sight. Or seek out ( it is re-emerging slowly) transpersonal psychologists or traumatologists, or a therapist who understands energies/chakra of the body and how if not facilitated can be stuck in the body make up, and we don`t emerge transformed or have our experiences processed.
Continued....................
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Continued................
I am so humbled with the sharing on this thread and all these experiences need processing either within a very genuine, unconditional positive regard, empathic giving group, with a clued up experienced facilitator, or particular informed therapist.
It will cost as the NHS does not provide this.
Jeremy J you share :- “when people praise me or say that it's interesting etc I don't feel anything, it never fills that void”, this is part of trauma and it is the numbing process, of being frightened of being, with the feelings being shown, frightened of being betrayed, so totally understandable, and the culture and GPs won`t let us just be with it and process it, they suggest medication.
Nothing will fill the void of abandonment wounds, or believing we are not good enough to be praised. We never had it mirrored for us in the early days. So we are at a loss over certain things.
“My work sounds interesting, it is to do with wildlife” you say. That is soooooo, wonderful and therapeutic Jeremy J. This is slowly happening, the re-wilding and return to nature and the earth, and I have discovered a trained person centred therapist (Rogerian trained) who sees clients in her wood, under trees with soothing energies and in a wooden shack amongst the animals (her horse, dog, hens, birds etc). This re-wilding is so cathartic and enabling for those who trust the process of emergence from crisis, dark night of the soul or developmental wounding .
Jeremy J and all others we are OK, wonderful beings, even though we may not feel it yet.
What happened to you in those early days wasn't your fault. It was circumstances of other people who chose to make decisions about you after birth.
Also, it is well documented (and this helps no one really to hear this ) evacuees, and many, many orphanages or child care facilities (and yes run by nuns and the like, who were actually all wounded and had unhealed agendas- just because we are placed in care or go to professionals for help we need not assume they are perfect and know everything and will facilitate our journey), were often abusive and not at all child friendly, nor giving unconditional loving conducive to good child development places.
Everyone is worthwhile, but were made to feel not, so we retain those early experiences, and they can drive us to cirisis. It can be hard to love and accept the self after a poor start in life...
Jeremy J you share “it's still with me and close to me, those feelings and thoughts from my earliest memories”. They will never go away, it is part of our experiential journey in the memory. However, with genuine compassionate feeling - processing the wounds, and hearing our frightened, abandoned child it will start to lessen.
`What we resist persists`.
Out in the open shared and re processed for healing life events, it must be.
“that which we don`t confront in our self we will meet as fate”
Suppression of inner things by whatever means, causes them not to be heard and they will always knock on the door to be heard. As I have said in other posts, I am still processing stuff, which has been triggered.
Jeremy J you say “Despite what I did or strive for I can't escape the feelings” (you can`t nor should you, to feel is to heal) - so I realise that I have to work on me rather than external factors”.
What an amazing awakened realization. You got it !!!!!!!!!!!!
Regarding the sense of self worth, you have worth and are good enough, you have had experiences in environments which have dented and wounded you, it can and is being repaired.
Also you say Jeremy J “what did I do wrong, what is wrong with me' that's all I ever felt”
This sharing reminds me of the overall thing which many have shared... It really comes down to thoughts and feelings of `what did we do wrong`, `why am I disliked`, `why was I bullied, or not accepted` ` why am I never` good enough`??
This is the bottom line. Why am I never` good enough. What is wrong with me?
With all these feeling of never able to be good enough to please people or live up to a standard, rules, demands etc or expectations, (eg of a parent, caregiver, teacher , boss etc), to be accepted, fit in, be liked, in that system we were in, (and perhaps abused/traumatized for not doing someone`s bidding), we spend all our adult life trying to PLEASE others through patterns of behaviour.
Waylay says :- `as a way of finding self worth, but at the same time felt and behaved in ways to sabotage all that I had`.
This reminds me again, we go into relationships, careers etc trying to find self worth because we were told overtly or covertly we were somehow bad, not lovable, or there was something wrong with us.. So we have got to prove something or other.
No we have to prove or justify nothing.
No, we never lost self worth.It is there.
We were working within other people`s false perceptions of us.
WE ARE ALL GOOD ENOUGH. Cease the striving to prove anything, or justify existence.
Also as Waylay says , we do sabotage things and hurt our selves at times, and this is quite classic, and been known for eons.
It is the human psyche trying to heal or get power over a past situation and it is called `THE TALIONIC IMPULSE` (Masterson 1981).
Despite someone’s best endeavours not to repeat, (violence/abuse of speech or body onto self or another), or early observed destructive and addictive patterns of behaviour, the cycle will emerge in adult life in relationships and continue on unbroken because of the compulsion to repeat or take revenge, to try to heal or have power over it. Traumatic abusive events have not been heard or facilitated.
Inflicting the hurt/emotional neglect/abandonment etc one experienced, onto another or the self is the talionic impulse. Common practice.
It is deep and an ancient psychological impulse, which many engage in, to get even or have revenge through conflict or sabotage, when we have been wronged or made to be wrong.
We objectify a person, find something wrong about them-criticise them or make them an enemy, without emotions. We do it to our self, berate and judge.
This covert impulse to judge, criticise, condemn and then punish what we believe, in our opinion is wrong with another, a group or our self, is woven into social, child rearing and legal systems.
To punish and destroy with emotional isolation, rejection or humiliation gives the mind satisfaction.
Projecting onto children in child rearing practices, groups, people in place of work (an innocent person), what was done to you is common practice. It enables caregivers, and members of society to `act out` unwittingly their own frustration, or woundedness in the arena of life.
It is undertaken all the time in various ways and environments.
Hearing many talk about trying to prove you are good enough through being busy, devoting time to activities, career, hobbies, relationships etc. A distraction away from the real issue.....
Have done this initially, focussed on my hobby, (music and examinations) as a child. I realise now I used it to get away from a biological father, (church dignitary) who promised that if I revealed his paedophilia and child abuse etc, he would murder me and bury my body on the moor. What child would not keep running, under threat?
I really studied hard, and worked to get away and have a career to prove to the world I could escape this, make good and was OK. I suppressed it all... Remained in hiding so as not to be found and killed.
The damage, ( and often wounded themselves) carers or characters in life do to a child`s being, is phenomenal.
I did eventually tell. Wrote a book which was supposed to be cathartic. It was, very, I had a breakdown as my life was displayed before me.
I therefore empathize with you all on your challenging life`s journey. Been there and worn the T shirt, and still am.
Many things, relationship and events will trigger us, and we will want to act out, go into a meltdown etc....Pete Walker in CPTSD and Tao of Feelings, gives us tools to cope with this.
Not always easy though, to stay in the present as Pete Walker says. We also need facilitation to stay in the present and acknowledge we have been triggered and work it through. That is OK acknowledging we have been triggered. We still need that safe space.
WAYLAY shared another heart wrenching life experience...
Sharing.... “ I felt I had fought for that career, fought to get there, then, I was put back where I belong, (sad) . With no hope of ever returning from it. The diagnosed with Borderline PD, Avoidant PD, Narcissistic PD (!), refractory major depression, dysthymia, generalised anxiety disorder, etc. over the years”
All labelling everyone experiences is for the needs of scientists-NHS etc, to fit you into a category, to be given medication.
All this labelling serves a function, to cause us to feel not good enough, something’s wrong, or we have a brain dis-ease or chemical imbalance.
None of this is actually true, you (at the risk of sounding boring) are all OK and good enough. We have to stop trying to please other people, and fit into their system/ scheme of things, like we did as children.
Yes, this is what happens and brings us to crisis “so burnt out that I got very sick ” you say WAYLAY, it happens to everyone until they wake up to a few things. Someone must hear about experience and feelings and they must be worked through.
You also share, Waylay, “Of course, I was miserable, anxious and depressive much of the time”, of course we are because we are trying to dance to someone else’s drum, to be good enough.
When we fail, we get depressed (anger turned in on our self) and sick. We can`t control or change those who hurt us and the energies of the past are stuck within, unprocessed and will emerge during a personal life event crisis. We need to be heard.
As Barry Weinhold 1991 in Breaking Free Of Addictive Family Relationships (healing your inner child), tells us , breaking energy patterns and addictive learned behaviours set up in a family or group of origin prevents everyone from living a healthy life. If we don`t break the cycle of suffering we get stuck in the past, a not being in the present life.
Christopher Bache in Dark Night, Early Dawn States, who worked with Grof and Grof, believes that it will be a lethal ecological crisis, and meltdown of civilization as we know it that is embedded within the fabric of modern society that will drive this spiritual transformation forward.
This is happening, we don`t care for one another and the planet. We are disconnected.
“And you! When will you begin that long journey into yourself, and see truth?
Rumi ( Jalal ad-Din Muhammad Rumi) ancient Persian sage –teacher. (1207-1273 )
References:-
Bache CM (2000) Dark Night Early Dawn Albany NY Press
Brach Tara (2003) Radical Acceptance Psychology. Rider Press
Grof C & Grof S (The Stormy Search for The Self (understanding and livening with spiritual emergency) Thoronson
Herman Judith (1997) Trauma and Recovery
Lucas C G In case of Spriritual Emergency. Findhorn Press
Mirdad M (2019) ` Dark Night Of The Soul` a natural process. Grail Press
Mirdad M 2013 You Are not Going Crazy Just Waking Up. Grail Press
Sapiro D (1998) Your Body Speaks Your Mind. Piatkus
Verny T R and KellyJ (1981) The Secret Life of the Unborn Child
Weinhold J. B 92016) How To Break Free Of The Drama Traingle and Victim Consciousness. Cicrcl Press
Weinhold BK (1991) Breaking Free of Addictive Family Relationships. Cicrcl Press
WWW.SpiritualCrisisNetwor.org.uk
www.in-case-of-spiritaul-emergency.blogspot.com
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A Have folk here seen Havoca, or Pandora's aquarium, or l believe there are others?
B Have folk considered Not going to a g.p? Not going into the mental illness conveyor belt? Not taking drugs? Not getting labelled? To an extent in Scope, but far, far more in other sites, people seem almost triumphant to post about having spent vast fortunes and devoted their lives to a merry go round of treatment to make them worse .
Cursory internet search would suggest, exactly as the experts by experience here state, that medicalisation of unhappiness is of benefit to pharmaceutical companies, but rarely anyone else. Overprescription of painkillers, tranquillisers, antidepressants, antibiotics is constantly in the news, so although l absolutely don't question anyone here, or criticise anyone anywhere, it merely surprises my logic that people go along with what they know is a bad idea.......
Only the other day, an ex neighbour mentioned intending to go to a g.p. and get onto the conveyor belt of branding-by- labelling, and the swallowing of mega addictive prescription drugs. This was an exceptionally bright and well informed person, who seemed to be starting on that route despite not expecting any meaningful benefit, being certain that addiction and side effects would follow, and not having any major life problems or even an emotional problem apart than having met a person who had showed no interest in going ahead and making a romantic date.
It was astonishing to notice someone with everything to lose and nothing to gain, almost declaring that jumping off a cliff into addiction would at least be an experiment. So would drinking a bucketful of whisky, which presumably also dulls feelings therefore, at first, induces fake wellbeing through a haze. Probably the relevant industries could, if necessary, produce 'patient trials ', to prove that steady ingestion of tobacco and alcohol and sugar makes some sad people feel better, and that persisting with these treatments, increasing the dose for years, would be a good use of n.h.s. funds?? -
Not quite a half, but two in five people, have nobody to visit them if they have a stay in hospital. They are at their most vulnerable. They are mainly old. They need help from real people. Their isolation must tear them up. But only cute kiddies attract sympathy or organised systems.
I have no idea if this works, but anyone well intentioned might look at Mail's Hospital Helpforce. I think there are befriending charities too? -
Wow, true words in an awesome way have been spoken by Newborn." medicalisation of unhappiness is of benefit to pharmaceutical companies, but rarely anyone else". Fact.Oh dear it`s indoctrination and in trance of today: "ex neighbour mentioned intending to go to a g.p. and get onto the conveyor belt of branding-by- labelling, and the swallowing of mega addictive prescription drugs". Throwing yourself at the knees of gatekeepers, please take me, give me that drug. Sad...Indoctrination by the medical model ..What else in todays climate, (that`s so called free all round care at point of delivery, NHS-Aneurin Bevan said 1946??? we weren`t told we would be guinea pigs and drugs tested on us), can be offered to the poor indoctrinated in trance, wearing grooves in ground, to GPs, souls??NOWT....?????So lots of folks can`t help it.From cradle to grave we were told we would be helped.... Huh.....Not told what sort of help though, and we would, like many groups or cultures before us, prevented from knowing we were going to be experimented on, watched, and documented as to the effects of drugs !!!!Oh yes, maybe something can help humanity..... connection with all, unconditional love, care, community and a safe space, during any life time event. Mmmmmm????
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Stress and trauma play a role in the, womb, workplace, in the home, and virtually everywhere that people interact.We are conditioned in the Western society to go to a GP and get medicated, to suppress internally what is going on.All addictions are the person trying to cope and survive becasue of trauma/stress/abandonment/neglect etc. etc. So the alcoholic or drug addict etc needs help to understand their inner suffering first and foremost. Don`t mock the addiction.It can take a heavy toll on individuals unless it is recognized, processed and managed effectively and insightfully, not medicated away.This is even more true for parents, family members and caregivers of individuals with neuro-behavioural disorders such as FASD, who need empathic and connected support and understanding and if left unchecked, accumulated stress goes on to undermine immunity, disrupts the body's physiological milieu and can prepare the ground for a multitude of chronic diseases, and conditions in the mind and the body.
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Hey - thanks for all the posts, it takes time to reflect on these and the irony is sometimes it can be quite triggering!
I don't know if anyone has come across the 'crappy childhood fairy'?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXSlAfoJiAg
I felt a little more hopeful after watching the above, the neurological and emotional regulation side of it. I don't know if it's a consequence or related or neither but as an over thinker I'm constantly looking for understanding myself and new ways to 'heal'!
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I’m sorry if that was my fault, so very. None of this is simple is is! I can’t cope without dulling the world out. So pathetic and weak as I am, that’s good enough for me. Pills a plenty for me. Only consistent thing. I’m not awakened, I’m being suffocated. One **** thing replaces another. Not god, trees and inner this and that, I’ll just be one of them. JJ No this is not in response to you, you are not responsible for me giving up. I’m just sorry if I contributed to your pain whilst not coping with my own
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Hi Holly - not your fault at all and I know it's not a response to me. Yep, none of it's simple - we can all rationalise, but how it effects each of us is unique. After watching the last video i realise that the talking therapy I'm having is probably not helping me anymore and I need the attachment based EMDR (can't afford neuro reprogramming!) and to maintain healthy habits of meditation and exercise. I think we almost create lives for ourselves that reinforce the fear from childhood - responsibility etc. Hope you're ok.HollyGCat said:I’m sorry if that was my fault, so very. None of this is simple is is! I can’t cope without dulling the world out. So pathetic and weak as I am, that’s good enough for me. Pills a plenty for me. Only consistent thing. I’m not awakened, I’m being suffocated. One **** thing replaces another. Not god, trees and inner this and that, I’ll just be one of them. JJ No this is not in response to you, you are not responsible for me giving up. I’m just sorry if I contributed to your pain whilst not coping with my own
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@JeremyJ I’m okay and sorry. Yes I’m trying. Coming of the tablets is really affecting me. I’m trying, but my life is so chaotic. My failing, which is how I see it, has affected everyone around me. Utter regret and guilt.
I actually don’t know what to think. For someone who used to be so decisive and competent, I feel stripped away. I think I am struggling with all the varying views and I need to work out what’s right for me. I feel very confused as there is such a strength of varying views and my head is not in a place where I can decipher what I think.
I am not psychotic, yet, today, my younger self was in the corner of my room. Now I know she wasn’t, so I know this is not saying I’m psychotic, and perhaps my brain and the withdrawal are affecting my reality, but I saw her, felt her, and she was distressed, and I was helpless to help her. Perhaps this is madness...but whatever it was frightening.
I have a lot of difficult things to deal with and perhaps I should come off the forum until I’ve dealt with them.
I genuinely don’t want to spread negativity to people who have their own struggles.
I am grateful to those of you who have given your experience and kindness. Some who I connect with strongly.
I for this reason, feel my presence on this forum with my extreme emotions is unhelpful to others. I am sorry for anyone who has been negatively affected by my comments.
Keep fighting and as @SurvivingTara
has said, you are all good enough -
Hi @HollyGCat,
I know we don’t post in this thread a great deal because you all do an amazing job of supporting one another and talking through your feelings. However, I just wanted to add that your presence here certainly isn’t a negative one and if there’s anything we can do to help or support you, please do let us know.
If you feel like you need some time away, make sure you do what’s right for you. In the meantime, you can always email us at community@scope.org.uk
Community Manager
Scope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6IL8WVyMMs&t=889s
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