New pip application

boriswho

This is how I should have filled my last application for moving around criteria

What rate should I get 0 point or lower rate or higher.?
What do you think do you think my recent tribunal loss was incorrect?
Based on the new application details which should have been put in my 1St application.
Thanks for your time

How do you think this should impact universal credit lcw on moving around criteria as my problems don't change unlike the application process.
Citizens advice have told me that I'm not entitled after tribunal loss however I don't think they understand the gravity of this situation on my health.


*images removed from post by moderator at member's request

April2018mom

To answer your question, I recommend getting advice. Use this link to type up a letter to appeal- https://www.advicenow.org.uk/pip-tool/thank-you

boriswho

Try again

*image removed by moderator at Member's request

April2018mom

Do you have a social worker or not? 

boriswho

Sorry this is my new application after tribunal denial

poppy123456

Sorry, i'm confused, you mention LCW but this is a PIP2 form? PIP and LCW are different benefits with different criteria.

I'd definitely advise you to get some face to face advice from an agency near you. No one on an internet forum can advise you on this because no one knows exactly how your conditions affect you.

This link will help you find what's local to you. https://advicelocal.uk/

cristobal

@boriswho - your conditions seems to be very variable, and you would need to show what happens on the majority of days.

Personally I wouldn't include phrases like  "sometimes pain is exacerbated" and "occasionally causes dizziness" because they don't apply to the majority of the time and they may be not taken into account by the assessor.

Good luck anyway - you should be commended for keeping mobile (it's very difficult I know)

poppy123456

One thing to point out is you mention you walk less than 200 metres per day. Be careful how you word things because this could be seen as you have no problems walking this far. What maybe better is telling them how far you can walk without pain, discomfort, breathlessness or fatigue.

mikehughescq

It’s very rare, and fairly brave, to post a copy of any part of your own claim pack online. So, here’s my thoughts:

1 - all of the information you have put about pain in general should really go in the Extra Information part of the form at the end. They know your condition and they know it causes you pain but that’s not what they’ve asked you here. Look at the question again but look also at the PIP points scoring requirements - https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system - and not just how they’re converted those to the overly long question in the claim pack. 

At no point in your answer have you given the distance you can walk in one go before you have to stop; nor whether you can do that repeatedly or not or at what speed. 200m in 1 day is the answer to a different question. On that alone this would score 0 points. I’m not saying that’s what you ought to score. It’s impossible to say one way or another on a forum or during a telephone call. You possibly need face to face advice. I am simply saying that, regardless of your condition, that your answer as it stands would generally score 0 points because a decision maker could not read that and understand what one walk would look like. I’m not even clear from that whether your 200m is indoors or out or both.

Also look to cut out the irrelevant stuff. You can say what you want about standing and sitting but if they can read that and still have no idea what a single walk looks like then 0 points will be scored. 

2 - think very carefully about contradictions in what you have written. There’s an obvious contradiction for example in saying you “continue to keep active walking through pain” whilst saying you walk a total of 200m per day for example. You need to explain yourself much clearer.

Non-weight bearing for a day or two for example. Well, which is it? Is it one day or two? Is it mostly one but sometimes two or vice verse? What makes the difference? Do you mean that you sit and don’t walk or do you mean you are bed bound? Are you bed-bound immediately after walking or the day after? Put yourself in the shoes of the decision maker who sees hundreds of cases like yours. I’ve just seen your answer and I don’t know what you mean. What are you giving the DM which helps them understand what you mean? From my perspective you’re giving them more questions than answers and they simply aren’t obliged to ask those further questions. At the claim stage the onus is on you to prove entitlement not them. Answers similar to this at tribunal would also produce 0 points. Did you attend your hearing?   

3 - the conspicuous issue with your answer is that it’s all assertion. This causes that. This makes that worse. I can’t do this because. Obviously I’m not quoting verbatim but you get the gist. The bottom line with all benefits is that you cannot assert and assert alone. You need to provide evidence to back up your assertion. This is not medical evidence as regards this sort of question but actual anecdotal examples. So, your answer to this question might be reduced by 50% or more in length but be 100% more effective if you gave 2 detailed examples of incidents which have occurred when you have walked. 

A DM needs to know what happens when you walk. Are you in pain before you walk? Where? Does that get worse or is a different pain occurring? How far can you walk in 1 go? When did you last do that? What happened? Who witnessed it? Hospitalisation and so on? 

Just two recent examples - perhaps one where you fell and one where you got stuck and couldn’t get back to where you started - would be far better and much more directed at the question. This applies to every question you answer in the form.

If you actually can’t provide two recent examples per activity then I think it’s reasonable to surmise that 0 points may be correct in most cases.

poppy123456

@mikehughescq wow awesome, best advice i've seen in a very long time!

cristobal

@mikehughescq - I agree with poppy...it's a bit on the long side but good advice nevertheless...

boriswho

I did attend tribunal @mikehughescq I thought because I can walk into a tribunal that this was part of the reason for denial.

When you say recent issues?? How recent last 12 months good enough?
 I have variations in severity the last major problem was with my lower back in january I attended hospital I drove there I walked to the a&e entrance about 200 meters took a long time.
I saw someone they just wrote a script for 30mg codeine and sent me away.
So I've continued this way since with pain relief at home stuck in the house all the time can't go out never got nowt to go anywhere or do anything. 

Ive stopped doing do much since then don't want that pain back, but have had many mini scares with the knees that gives, I don't fall but I'm not far off.  I struggle to walk temporarily. I think it's the cartlidge getting caught in the joint as it has rips and tears and feels like it rips or tears everytime a knee cracks catches or gives I have to sit down this makes my long term issues with my back flare.
I really do need to keep active but lack motivation and energy.

These issues are most definitely exacerbated by the gives and catches with the knees & ankle forcing me to sit, my lower back issue is however another matter.

My partner has witnessed my be haulted in my tracks many times by a knee or ankle issue I find the best option is to try to keep moving it will right itself hopefully....quickly.
I usually carry on by using the shopping trolley or a pram as an aid I suppose until I get back to the car to return home to recover.

As for the heel pain I don't stand long periods but from employment history in 2016/2017 this used to become apparent after being on my feet between 1 to 4 hours (estimated)without a break, now it's apparent when stood for 5/10 mins and get worse the longer I try to stay on my feet (was thinking about trying to stand at my assessment to show this but you can't see it)

Citizens advice has tried to help with a written submission but I don't think they had the time to be thorough.

I'm not so good at writing story's in this past tense view  especially about myself how can I possibly paint a picture for these people for them to understand or understand without this financial support they are in effect making my conditions worse...

mikehughescq

cristobal said:

@mikehughescq - I agree with poppy...it's a bit on the long side but good advice nevertheless...

Blimey. What would you prefer? Brevity or an answer to the question?

mikehughescq

If you attended your tribunal but maintained that you can’t do more than 200m in total per day then that would play some part in the outcome as would what the clerk saw as you approached the waiting room and what the tribunal see when you enter and leave the room. Your behaviour in the room would also be an issue. I’ve lost count of the clients who have told me they can’t sit for more than a few minutes without needing to stand who then sit for an hour in a tribunal for example. The bigger issue will simply have been your evidence. Too vague and lacking in focus on what one actual walk looks like. I am none the wiser after your latest post for example. Lots of detail about pain in general but nothing about what one walk looks like and still contradictory. All the stuff you’ve put is about pain in general and would go at the end of your claim pack. None of it answers the specific issue of whether you can walk one of the statutory distances reliably. 

You give an example of driving to hospital but that will have involved walking to/from a vehicle; to/from the entrance so that’s >200m straight away from your own description so again you have to address the contradictions in what you write else the outcome will be the same.  

If if you’re no good at describing then get your partner or someone else who knows you to do so. I do appreciate that trying to get things like this down when in pain can be impossible so don’t do it yourself. Get someone else to do it and then you be the critic. Pick holes in it like you were a decision maker or get another person to do that too. 

As regards what’s recent there’s no rule. However, it should be obvious that the longer ago an incident was the less relevant it will be. 

You also need to put to one any arguments about variations. I’ve yet to meet anyone who doesn’t have a variable condition. It’s not an argument. Ditto getting them to understand the financial impact. Hard as it is, that’s an argument which will harm your claim every time. Focus on one walk. Two examples. 

cristobal

mikehughescq said:

cristobal said:

@mikehughescq - I agree with poppy...it's a bit on the long side but good advice nevertheless...

Blimey. What would you prefer? Brevity or an answer to the question?

@mikehughescq +++ you didn't spot my tongue, concealed in cheek...

boriswho

Thanks I think the penny has dropped.
How do I remove the above images of my paperwork.

I've ordered a new form.

I'm going to try to complete it over the next 3 weeks.

I think I may need the link for a diary of symptoms., because I do have a tendency to forget because they're are so many.
Thanks 

Boristhebag lol 

cristobal

@boriswho ..I'd recommend an A4 binder, print off the PIP descriptors and keep them in the front, and then a page for every day for a couple of weeks

Don't write War and Peace - just notes like 'walked to end of garden 20yards,, fell over (why?), how you got up, how long you took, how long was it until you were able to walk again etc...

Do this for all of the descriptors that you have difficulty with..

When you apply, as I've said before, don't use vague phrases like 'sometimes', 'occasionally' - say what you mean, taking into account that the assessor needs to know about the majority of the time...

Take your diary with you if you have a F2F...

boriswho

It's wor Boris he's gonna save the world ........
Well maybe not maybe I can do a little better and give my son the upbringing he deserves than the one which he currently has.....not.

I had the same motor as this chap boris Jonson not long ago it had curtains in lol I loved it hahahah Toyota lucida 2.5Ltr td how bad can your grammar be to sway a dm 

I may well get the form right yet 3rd attempt on route feeling slightly positive.
Hopefully I get a good DM and assessor for that matter.
Or even better still no assessment.

mikehughescq

@poppy123456 thx. What tends to happen when I do this face to face is that either I do the claim pack or the claimant goes back; does it again and eventually gets there. What tends to happen online often looks very different. 

I am grateful on this occasion Scope allowed the whole of my post. They have been refusing to publish some posts and have published others with whole chunks taken out with no indication to others that the post has been moderated in any way. 

That means that on two recent occasions posters have been given wholly incorrect advice on this site by prominent others; my post hasn’t been allowed to fix that and moderators don’t know enough about the subject to comment but have done so anyway thus contributing to the wrong advice! 

Sam_Alumni

Hi @mikehughescq
Obviously I have been away from the community for a few weeks but I have caught up with the team on this issue. We do moderate some comments so they don't show on the community, this is when the post breaks our community guidelines.

I am aware of one post of yours that was edited to remove certain things and have been told you are aware of this.

If you have any issues with how we moderate the community, then please feel free to email on [email protected]

Best wishes, Sam 

Sam_Alumni

boriswho said:

Thanks I think the penny has dropped.
How do I remove the above images of my paperwork.

I've ordered a new form.

I'm going to try to complete it over the next 3 weeks.

I think I may need the link for a diary of symptoms., because I do have a tendency to forget because they're are so many.
Thanks 

Boristhebag lol 

Hi @boriswho I have removed the images from your posts.