DWP confirms it is increasing the automatic extension period of existing PIP awards awaiting review

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  • Hannah_Alumni
    Hannah_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,866 Championing
    @newpip I'm so sorry you have to go back through court. Citizen's Advice is there for support if needed and we are too, if you need to vent! :) Please keep us updated. 
  • Audinut70
    Audinut70 Community member Posts: 133 Empowering
    edited September 2023
    My PIP was extended until June 2024, got an assessment letter in July this year. Sent it 'straight' back. Got a letter today, Aug 31st.(dated Aug 19th) claiming they hadn't received it. You only get 1 month from the date on the letter to appeal. Considering it happened to me in 2018 and took almost a year for them to admit they had it, 'the DAY before the tribunal'. So I sent it signed for, and I still got the letter of no receipt. I was on hold for almost an hour before they answered, then told me they didn't have it, until I told them I had the proof of being signed for, to which I got "oh sorry, we do have it, you were sent the wrong letter".
     So my conclusion is, they send the non receipt letter 2 weeks after the return deadline date, hoping you bin the postage proof receipt, keep you on hold for hours hoping you'll hang up, and it's almost too late to appeal in writing, because they'll say they didn't receive it in time. Claim ended!!! 
     My advice! Send it back recorded, ASAP, DO NOT hang up when on hold, and keep the postal proof receipt until you 'know the conclusion' in writing of your claim. 
     This may sound dramatic or even conspiratorial, but lightning DOES strike you twice with this government. 
     It would be nice to know if anyone else has had the same experiences. 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 61,416 Championing
    Audinut70 said:
    My PIP was extended until June 2024, got an assessment letter in July this year. Sent it 'straight' back. Got a letter today, Aug 31st.(dated Aug 19th) claiming they hadn't received it. You only get 1 month from the date on the letter to appeal. Considering it happened to me in 2018 and took almost a year for them to admit they had it, 'the DAY before the tribunal'. So I sent it signed for, and I still got the letter of no receipt. I was on hold for almost an hour before they answered, then told me they didn't have it, until I told them I had the proof of being signed for, to which I got "oh sorry, we do have it, you were sent the wrong letter".
     So my conclusion is, they send the non receipt letter 2 weeks after the return deadline date, hoping you bin the postage proof receipt, keep you on hold for hours hoping you'll hang up, and it's almost too late to appeal in writing, because they'll say they didn't receive it in time. Claim ended!!! 
     My advice! Send it back recorded, ASAP, DO NOT hang up when on hold, and keep the postal proof receipt until you 'know the conclusion' in writing of your claim. 
     This may sound dramatic or even conspiratorial, but lightning DOES strike you twice with this government. 
     It would be nice to know if anyone else has had the same experiences. 

    Just so that you're aware you have 13 months to challenge any decision made by DWP. If you're outside the 1 month timeframe you need to give a reason why you didn't request it within the first month.

    You don't need recorded delivery for anything sent to DWP. All you need is proof of posting which is free from any post office. Recorded delivery doesn't mean it arrives with DWP the next day. It's not classed as arriving until it's been added to the computer, which can take up to a couple of weeks.
  • Audinut70
    Audinut70 Community member Posts: 133 Empowering
    edited September 2023
    Ok, so you have 13 months to challenge the decision, your claim is closed down after 1 month. It is then down to you to prove that the forms were returned in time. This is fact because I lived it. So much for the support on here. And for your information, it was a DWP agent that told me to use recorded delivery, I don't know the in's and out's of how it works. Again, a bit of support, rather than condescension would have been nice. It's now apparent to me why I haven't been on here for so long.
    Ps. It's starting to sound like the DWP is being defended in it's practices over non receipt of forms, and you are the only person advising against recorded delivery.
    "This is why we advise all claimants whenever you write to the DWP, send it by recorded delivery for peace of mind".
    https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk › ...
    "If you can, send your PIP form back by recorded delivery. If not make a note of the time and date you post the form for evidence in the future".
    How to send in the PIP form - Mental Health & Money Advice
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Community member Posts: 61,416 Championing
    Audinut70 said:
    Ok, so you have 13 months to challenge the decision, your claim is closed down after 1 month. It is then down to you to prove that the forms were returned in time. This is fact because I lived it. So much for the support on here. And for your information, it was a DWP agent that told me to use recorded delivery, I don't know the in's and out's of how it works. Again, a bit of support, rather than condescension would have been nice. It's now apparent to me why I haven't been on here for so long.
    Ps. It's starting to sound like the DWP is being defended in it's practices over non receipt of forms, and you are the only person advising against recorded delivery.
    "This is why we advise all claimants whenever you write to the DWP, send it by recorded delivery for peace of mind".
    https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk › ...
    "If you can, send your PIP form back by recorded delivery. If not make a note of the time and date you post the form for evidence in the future".
    How to send in the PIP form - Mental Health & Money Advice

    I'm sorry you feel that way about the advice that i gave. I wasn't condecending in any way. It's a well known fact that recorded delivery isn't needed and is a waste of money, money which a lot of people don't even have. All it proves is that your form was signed for by someone from Royal Mail and it's somewhere in the sorting office building. It's not classed as arriving until it's been added to the computer. Proof of posting, is free and it proves that you posted it, which is all you need.
  • dee4848
    dee4848 Community member Posts: 256 Empowering
    I was making a mistake by sending recording delivery, by mistake I mean the cost because there is no need to post it that way , your claim form can go anywhere , until its all scanned on their computer then that means the relevant team has recieved your claim and you can relax, if it isn't scanned yet it means your claim is still in a pile of hundreds making its way to the relevant team.
  • Audinut70
    Audinut70 Community member Posts: 133 Empowering
    I'm sorry, "it's a well known fact"? I didn't know! The advice from DWP and other mental health and money services advise it.
     So now I'm stupid? They're all wrong? I simply put on MY experience and results, and offered the same advice I was given by professionals and learned. You need to remember you are replying to people with some serious mental health issues, but not a word of support or concern. Have you been through the experience of having to fight against a system that makes you a liar and scrounger? Living off a credit card you didn't know if you were going to be able to pay off if you lose your case? For the same thing to happen again? It may be a waste of time and money, but I knew I did everything I could to ensure the letter got delivered, and £2.65 was a LOT  cheaper that the £2000 credit card bill I had to pay off. But thanks for the concern and understanding. 
  • dee4848
    dee4848 Community member Posts: 256 Empowering
    Nobody here thinks your stupid 
  • dee4848
    dee4848 Community member Posts: 256 Empowering
    Audinut70 said:
    I'm sorry, "it's a well known fact"? I didn't know! The advice from DWP and other mental health and money services advise it.
     So now I'm stupid? They're all wrong? I simply put on MY experience and results, and offered the same advice I was given by professionals and learned. You need to remember you are replying to people with some serious mental health issues, but not a word of support or concern. Have you been through the experience of having to fight against a system that makes you a liar and scrounger? Living off a credit card you didn't know if you were going to be able to pay off if you lose your case? For the same thing to happen again? It may be a waste of time and money, but I knew I did everything I could to ensure the letter got delivered, and £2.65 was a LOT cheaper that the £2000 credit card bill I had to pay off. But thanks for the concern and understanding. 

    I do understand mental health I have been diagnosed with schizophrenia for years
  • Audinut70
    Audinut70 Community member Posts: 133 Empowering
    I'm sorry, living with one doesn't qualify you to know about another. Anxiety, depression, paranoia, self consciousness, well I guess you get the paranoia (i think). But even in your replies, not a single word of understanding or explanation, just "you're wrong". Isn't care the point of this forum? I'm pretty sure I didn't say anything to upset or offend anyone in my post.
     Sorry about your schizophrenia, even though I don't know how it affects your daily life, and I genuinely only try to help with post's that I make. And well, having someone/something to tell it too. But I doubt I'll be doing much more of that now. 
  • dee4848
    dee4848 Community member Posts: 256 Empowering
    Nobody saying your wrong, you can post your form any which way you please, its just advice on how it is recieved.
    I can see that you are very argumentative and upset so I am now exiting this discussion.
  • Audinut70
    Audinut70 Community member Posts: 133 Empowering
    Ok.
              Have a nice day.
  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Community member Posts: 16,615 Championing
    edited September 2023
    Hi @Audinut70 - thank you for saying about your personal experience with PIP, & I'm sorry for the distress you've had over the DWP receiving your forms.
    I also just say get a free 'Certificate of Posting' from your Post Office:https://personal.help.royalmail.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/475/~/what-is-a-certificate-of-posting?
    'A Certificate of Posting is your proof that you have posted the item declared on the certificate into the Royal Mail network. The Certificate of Posting needs to be date stamped and signed at a Post Office® window as having been accepted into the network. In the rare instance of your item being lost in Royal Mail's network, you will have to present a stamped and signed Certificate of Posting with your claim for loss.'
    I am not disputing that other sites may say return your PIP forms using Recorded Delivery, & many claimants do so from fear of their forms not being received/getting lost.
    The mail for the DWP does indeed go to a sorting office first, where it's 'signed' for, before being sent to the DWP. 
    From my own personal experience selling 4-5 thousand secondhand & new books online, I know that only 2 people (one from Malta, the other in the UK) ever said they hadn't received their book(s), whom we refunded. We always obtained a Certificate of Posting unless sending items of a particularly high value when we used a signed for service.
    This is why I recommend a Certificate of Posting. I'm sure you were being helpful; in fact everyone here really does try to help with their advice & support, including poppy as you can see, & dee4848.

  • Wilf60
    Wilf60 Community member Posts: 43 Contributor
    Audinut70 said:
    I'm sorry, "it's a well known fact"? I didn't know! The advice from DWP and other mental health and money services advise it.
     So now I'm stupid? They're all wrong? I simply put on MY experience and results, and offered the same advice I was given by professionals and learned. You need to remember you are replying to people with some serious mental health issues, but not a word of support or concern. Have you been through the experience of having to fight against a system that makes you a liar and scrounger? Living off a credit card you didn't know if you were going to be able to pay off if you lose your case? For the same thing to happen again? It may be a waste of time and money, but I knew I did everything I could to ensure the letter got delivered, and £2.65 was a LOT  cheaper that the £2000 credit card bill I had to pay off. But thanks for the concern and understanding. 
    Audinut70 I would continue to send your PIP/ESA using recorded delivery, it is what I do every time. There is a little extra cost but it is definite proof of posting and it will be signed for at the other end by the DWP. The argument about it is not 'ticked' as received until it is uploaded to the computer system is true, but with a record of both posting and receipt by the DWP you would have powerful evidence of compliance if you were ever to appeal to a tribunal. 

    I understand the advice given about getting a 'proof of posting' receipt from the Post Office for no cost and that can be an option for those who can't afford the extra cost of recorded delivery, but for that extra piece of mind for someone who is suffering with anxiety over their claim/renewal that extra little cost can give a lot of reassurance. 
  • dee4848
    dee4848 Community member Posts: 256 Empowering
    It is signed for the whole delivery ,not an individual letter ,so where your letter ends up is another story.
  • Wilf60
    Wilf60 Community member Posts: 43 Contributor
    Indee4848 said:
    It is signed for the whole delivery ,not an individual letter ,so where your letter ends up is another story.

    REPLY

    That might be true but whenever I have used the online tracker it shows my letter to the DWP has been 'delivered' and gives a time and date with a signature which can be screen shot. If at any future date the DWP were to claim they hadn't received the returned documents you would be in procession of powerful evidence to the contrary and on the balance of probabilities it is almost certain a tribunal would side with the claimant. I would recommend that everyone if they can should use tracked postage to return documents to the DWP. I admit that 'proof of postage' could do the same job, but you do not have proof of delivery which tracked postage gives you
  • dee4848
    dee4848 Community member Posts: 256 Empowering
    Why will it be powerful evidence?the only evidence is that you did post a letter/form of some kind ,the DWP didn't see you put your pip claim in that envelope.
  • Wilf60
    Wilf60 Community member Posts: 43 Contributor
    dee4848 said:
    Why will it be powerful evidence?the only evidence is that you did post a letter/form of some kind ,the DWP didn't see you put your pip claim in that envelope.

    REPLY

    I have attended many tribunals and conducted many appeals during my time at the Citizens Advice. I also attended other tribunals such as employment. The court system works on the 'balance of probabilities' which is different to the criminal court's 'beyond reasonable doubt' as you only have to 'show' that on balance your version of events is higher than 50%. Having receipt of both postage and delivery is VERY powerful evidence which proves the claimant has complied with returning the PIP forms on time. The question to who put the forms in the envelope is quite frankly irrelevant.

    Balance of probabilities trickles down into the claim process. If you claim you can't do a descriptor to an adequate standard then you must show that on a balance of probabilities with medical evidence, OT/HCP reports or on a face-to-face assessment.

    Claims will go far easier the more evidence you have as the balance of probabilities will move in your direction. This is why using tracked postage (if you are able) is a better option than just proof of postage. In the long run it could save you time and stress and gives you definite evidence that your claim forms have arrived on time. If the DWP somehow lose the claim forms between arrival and uploading to the system then you would have powerful evidence on the balance of probabilities that the blame is with them. I have dealt with such circumstances at the CAB and in every case the claimant was believed and their claim went forward. 
  • chiarieds
    chiarieds Community member Posts: 16,615 Championing
    Playing devil's advocate @Wilf60 - if a claimant gets a free 'Certificate of Posting,' then obviously they can prove the date posted & the postcode of it's destination. That on the one hand proves on the 'balance of probabilities' that the claimant has sent their forms within, one presumes, the indicated timeframe. On the other hand receiving a signature from someone in a Royal Mail sorting office gives no peace of mind that the DWP have received it in time (as it takes longer to actually get to the DWP, & then needs to be loaded onto their system). 
    We had a member here for quite some time, who in their professional capacity also represented claimants at benefits tribunals. They were emphatic that only a Certificate of Posting was needed. Your letter to the DWP has only been 'delivered' to the RM sorting office, not the DWP, after all.
    However claimants will obviously chose whichever form of posting they feel appropriate.

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