DWP confirms it is increasing the automatic extension period of existing PIP awards awaiting review

chiarieds

Playing devil's advocate @Wilf60 - if a claimant gets a free 'Certificate of Posting,' then obviously they can prove the date posted & the postcode of it's destination. That on the one hand proves on the 'balance of probabilities' that the claimant has sent their forms within, one presumes, the indicated timeframe. On the other hand receiving a signature from someone in a Royal Mail sorting office gives no peace of mind that the DWP have received it in time (as it takes longer to actually get to the DWP, & then needs to be loaded onto their system). 

We had a member here for quite some time, who in their professional capacity also represented claimants at benefits tribunals. They were emphatic that only a Certificate of Posting was needed. Your letter to the DWP has only been 'delivered' to the RM sorting office, not the DWP, after all.

However claimants will obviously chose whichever form of posting they feel appropriate.

Wilf60

chiarieds said:

Playing devil's advocate @Wilf60 - if a claimant gets a free 'Certificate of Posting,' then obviously they can prove the date posted & the postcode of it's destination. That on the one hand proves on the 'balance of probabilities' that the claimant has sent their forms within, one presumes, the indicated timeframe. On the other hand receiving a signature from someone in a Royal Mail sorting office gives no peace of mind that the DWP have received it in time (as it takes longer to actually get to the DWP, & then needs to be loaded onto their system). 

We had a member here for quite some time, who in their professional capacity also represented claimants at benefits tribunals. They were emphatic that only a Certificate of Posting was needed. Your letter to the DWP has only been 'delivered' to the RM sorting office, not the DWP, after all.

However claimants will obviously chose whichever form of posting they feel appropriate.

Let's start with what we agree on. Proof of posting in most circumstances should be good enough, I have acknowledged that from the beginning, especially if nothing goes wrong! I also believe that we both agree that it is up to the individual to make a judgement on what is best for them Proof of Postage or Tracked Postage.

To put things into context TP costs around £2. It is not a large sum of money less than the price of a cup of coffee (to use a much-used comparison), PP costs nothing £0. I accept £2 may be a lot of money to some people and they can’t afford it. In those circumstances use PP.

Is proof of postage as good as tracked postage?

No, not in my opinion and I would add in the opinion of nearly all advisors I have come across and most websites that offer advice. The advisor who came on here in the past may have had a different opinion based on his experience and I respect that but based on my experience I would differ as the main advantage of TP is you have a digital record of the documents delivery journey from beginning to end.  

As mentioned, if there is a delay with the DWP uploading documents being up loaded to the computer system your TP would give you an exact record of when your documents arrived at the DWP. Any internal problems at the DWP would be then on them. That is where the balance of probabilities kicks in as the tracked postage receipt would override the uploading date at the DWP. That would be certain at a Tribunal, although it would never get that far (or shouldn't)

Finally, there is the peace of mind that TP offers. This is very important to some claimants especially those who suffer with anxiety, they want to know that their application has arrived safely.

As said at the beginning if someone wants to use PP then that is their choice and I am not going to call them names or state they are stupid, it is just I personally would always err on the side of caution and cover my back by using a very useful and inexpensive £2 tracked postage service

chiarieds

Wilf60 said

  ...the main advantage of TP is you have a digital record of the documents delivery journey from beginning to end.  

As mentioned, if there is a delay with the DWP uploading documents being up loaded to the computer system your TP would give you an exact record of when your documents arrived at the DWP. Any internal problems at the DWP would be then on them. That is where the balance of probabilities kicks in as the tracked postage receipt would override the uploading date at the DWP. That would be certain at a Tribunal, although it would never get that far (or shouldn't)

How? It's a digital record of it arriving at a Royal Mail sorting office not the DWP.

I do certainly hope on the 'balance of probabilities' that Tribunals do not waste their time on the trivia of a claimant's postage. I do appreciate that we have members who suffer from anxiety, etc who feel they'd rather send their forms tracked, & anyone else that wishes......just they don't need to.

But thank you for all the claimants you've helped whilst with Citizens Advice.

Wilf60

chiarieds said:

Wilf60 said

  ...the main advantage of TP is you have a digital record of the documents delivery journey from beginning to end.  

As mentioned, if there is a delay with the DWP uploading documents being up loaded to the computer system your TP would give you an exact record of when your documents arrived at the DWP. Any internal problems at the DWP would be then on them. That is where the balance of probabilities kicks in as the tracked postage receipt would override the uploading date at the DWP. That would be certain at a Tribunal, although it would never get that far (or shouldn't)

How? It's a digital record of it arriving at a Royal Mail sorting office not the DWP.

I do certainly hope on the 'balance of probabilities' that Tribunals do not waste their time on the trivia of a claimant's postage. I do appreciate that we have members who suffer from anxiety, etc who feel they'd rather send their forms tracked, & anyone else that wishes......just they don't need to.

But thank you for all the claimants you've helped whilst with Citizens Advice.

I sent some documents to the DWP recently. Have checked the Royal Mail tracking tool online and this is the information I was given.

Firstly, there is a statement: “Your item was delivered on 04-09-2023”

There is a ‘Proof of Delivery’ box containing a signature with the initials ‘SM’

There is a final statement: Delivered at: 13:39, Monday 04 September 2023

There is an option to print the information out

Finally, there is a delivery history which shows that the documents were taken from my local Post Office to West Midlands Delivery Centre and delivered from there.

At no point is there any indication that the documents were ‘signed for’ at West Midlands Delivery Centre rather than the DWP.

The above evidence would be very powerful if any problems now occur with the DWP, losing or accidentally destroying documents.

I really think you need to think hard about if are spreading misinformation on how tracked postage works.

Finally, anyone who reads our posts can now make an informed decision on whether to use PP or TP. As I have always stated it is up to the individual but I would recommend TP just to be on the safe side.

chiarieds

I'm well aware of how sending an item in the post using recorded delivery works, thank you. Perhaps you didn't read one of my previous responses in this thread in which I said I've posted thousands of secondhand & new books which were sold online. We only sent those of a higher value by recorded delivery, otherwise we just got a Certificate of Posting; many each day.

How you can say, 'I really think you need to think hard about if are spreading misinformation on how tracked postage works,' is a bit beyond me. You certainly should report my comments to the Scope online team if that's the case. How saying, 'get a free Certificate of Posting,' as I've said I do, is 'misinforming' about tracked postage, I have no idea.

Perhaps look here for example: https://www.gov.uk/pip/how-to-claim & the postal address is:

Personal Independence Payment New Claims
Post Handling Site B
Wolverhampton
WV99 1AH

or looking at my own PIP correspondence Mail Handling Site A, Wolverhampton, etc.

Perhaps consider looking at the address(es) to which you're sending documents.

Wilf60 said:

Finally, there is a delivery history which shows that the documents were taken from my local Post Office to West Midlands Delivery Centre and delivered from there.

Yes, as you've illustrated, items are delivered to a Mail Handling Centre! However 'and delivered from there,' how is that part tracked? I've nothing further to add, other than I've found your ad hominem 'argument' most discourteous.

Wilf60

chiarieds said:

I'm well aware of how sending an item in the post using recorded delivery works, thank you. Perhaps you didn't read one of my previous responses in this thread in which I said I've posted thousands of secondhand & new books which were sold online. We only sent those of a higher value by recorded delivery, otherwise we just got a Certificate of Posting; many each day.

How you can say, 'I really think you need to think hard about if are spreading misinformation on how tracked postage works,' is a bit beyond me. You certainly should report my comments to the Scope online team if that's the case. How saying, 'get a free Certificate of Posting,' as I've said I do, is 'misinforming' about tracked postage, I have no idea.

Perhaps look here for example: https://www.gov.uk/pip/how-to-claim & the postal address is:

Personal Independence Payment New Claims
Post Handling Site B
Wolverhampton
WV99 1AH

or looking at my own PIP correspondence Mail Handling Site A, Wolverhampton, etc.

Perhaps consider looking at the address(es) to which you're sending documents.

Wilf60 said:

Finally, there is a delivery history which shows that the documents were taken from my local Post Office to West Midlands Delivery Centre and delivered from there.

Yes, as you've illustrated, items are delivered to a Mail Handling Centre! However 'and delivered from there,' how is that part tracked? I've nothing further to add, other than I've found your ad hominem 'argument' most discourteous.

The documents they pass through the MHC and are then delivered to the DWP. You are deliberately miss representing events again. The MHC don't deal with your PIP claim the DWP do so obviously the final destination is the DWP, surely that is blindingly obvious.

I have stated several times that anyone reading our posts can make their own informed decisions on whether to use PP or TP. I personally feel that this 'discourteous' slur is thrown by you at me because you know deep down you are wrong.

Community_Scope

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To close the matter of postage. Citizen's Advice say:

Check how to send the form
If the DWP sent you a link to the online form by email, check the instructions they sent you about how to submit it.
If they sent you a form by post, the address to send it to will be on the back page of the form or the envelope it came with. If you can’t find it, call the phone number on the letter that came with the form.
When you post the form, ask the Post Office for free proof of postage - you might need to show when you sent it.

If you wish to send the forms off by tracked postage, that is your choice. However, it isn't a requirement. 

WhatThe

Royal Mail confirmed to me last year, when two letters sent to DWP were not signed for, that they deliver a sack to the mail handling site in Wolverhampton and get a signature for that.

Royal Mail sent me stamps double the value of the postage paid on each occasion. I had no response from DWP though

ella1992

I sent mine and my partners recorded next day delivery 6pounds od within one week me and my partner got text of dwp I would rather this way then sending it normal and they lose it 

Jaderwoman1

Hi
I was accepted for PIP Alternative Format due to my space as I stutter. With  Alternative Format PIP is supposed to communicate with me through email.
Yesterday Capita phoned me and left a message to phone them. I was very distressed but managed to phone them.This caused me to be sick and I struggled terribly to speak.
The lady said she was making an appointment for me to have a video call for my PIP review and she would send me a letter in the post to confirm this.I've been on Pip for four years.I have overwhelming phycological distress.
I told her Capita was to communicate with me by email.
She said she'd speak to someone,she then said she was going to ask for a paper review for me and will call me back in four days to confirm this but they may not give me a paper review so I will have a video review in the first of November.She gave me a Mind number to text and type shout...I can't remember it now.
I'm not coping at all.Why did Capita phone me when they're supposed to contact me by Alternative Format (Email).
I'm 64 years old and broken 
Can anyone please help 🙏

poppy123456

@Jaderwoman1 advice given on your thread here. https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/111089/pip-alternative-format#latest

markwilliams12345

Do we still get free legal aid if we take the dwp to court or do we have to pay out off our own pockets 💰

poppy123456

markwilliams12345 said:

Do we still get free legal aid if we take the dwp to court or do we have to pay out off our own pockets 💰

It doesn’t cost us anything to appeal a benefits decision and it never has. It’s not a court and you’re not on trial, it’s a Tribunal. 

Kizzie58

I didn't want to start another thread  so I will ask here

Today -6mths after sending back my pip review form- I finally received a text to say they will be processing my form as soon as they can, but I may still need an assessment with a health professional.

 Does that mean I might not have to have an assessment (F2F, Phone or video)  and if so anyone know the chances odds on not having one? 
 

 I'm about to reach pension age ( March ) and have been told reviews are softer at that age is that true? 

family33

I got the same txt 3months after sending review, I think its just standard 

OverlyAnxious

It just means they still haven't looked at the form yet.  So there's no way for them to decide whether or not you'll need an assessment until they've done that.

Paper based assessments are quite rare.  Although I did have one myself.  Still took a few months after receiving that text before I heard anything else.

Kizzie58

OverlyAnxious said:

It just means they still haven't looked at the form yet.  So there's no way for them to decide whether or not you'll need an assessment until they've done that.

Paper based assessments are quite rare.  Although I did have one myself.  Still took a few months after receiving that text before I heard anything else.

Thank you. I was hoping as I will probably be retired by the time they do it the "May"  could mean I "might" not have to have one. 🤣

It's not like I'm going to miraculously get better.  

tink13

I’ve not long found out about an appointment for my review next week. They’ve had my forms since January. 

family33

I just got a year extension