Official thread: ‘Get Britain Working’ White Paper released Tuesday 26th November
Comments
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The youth guarentee idea is potentially good, alongside reforming jobcentres. However, as with anything neoliberals say, the devil is in the detail.
The consultation in the spring is one example of this. Don't even bother responding and instead prepare for in-person protests. Consultations are worse than nothing at this point as politicians will just ignore the responses.
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okay, I’ve finished highlighting the white paper pdf and as I feared I highlighted too many pages to screenshot so I’m posting the completed highlighted version below
I did try to colour code but my head got overwhelmed a third through so it’s a bit all over the place 😝 - yellow is kind of general tibbits, red are the parts that I think Kendall and co may want to take a second look at (made me feel a little uneasy, or slightly dodgy area/language or needs a rethink before being a realistic ‘bucket list’ item on Kendall’s checklist) and blue & orange are parts that stood out more than the yellow in a somewhat positive way
(And the other colours 🤷♀️………I’m autistic and like a colour code even if it’s not entirely obvious even to myself)
I also didn’t highlight the youth chapter as I wasn’t sure how many scope readers were in the 16-24 age group - I gave the start of that chapter a unique hot pink/purple highlight if you want to quickly locate that part
Now in the coming days I’m sure I’ll have a very vocal opinion and several takeaways that I’ll share with the forum (well the one or two of you that don’t think I’m off my rocker)
I do have 2 immediate takeaways that I think are valid:
> This is very much labours ‘part 1 of 2’ plan to reduce the welfare bill & get people into work (part 2 of 2 is not due till spring 2025). Having read through the whole white paper (though I’ll need to reread some parts a few more times) for the most part it was pretty positive - there were some good ideas and some very ambitious ones (a 10-15yr plan that labour will need at least 2 to 3 terms if they are to reap the major rewards). There were some parts I had to question the realism but if they were sincere about working directly with disabled ppl & organisations then I think these could be adjusted to be more ‘achievable’
> back in June many disabled wanted the tories out so badly that they were willing to make it happen at all costs (and didn’t listen to the risk of labour having a huge majority and almost blind in hope that labour were going to be this big saviour party for them). Some still don’t see how the rapid welfare bill is a huge problem for the uk economy and any responsible party in charge had no choice but to address it - there was always going to be hard times incoming for this community but it would be tougher under some parties than others.In 3 to 4 years time we will be on the eve of the next general election and as things stand labour have upset a lot of ppl since July and a kemikaze/stride Tory gov or a farage reform party (or a coalition of both) are very likely to get the protest vote and win - and I’m 100% sure that disabled people well-being would be in significantly more danger than anything labour can come up with (think dystopian and eugenics)
Every disabled person needs to ask themselves what price they are willing to pay in 42+ months time in order to continue keeping the tories & reform out of power?
Once you’ve answered that you need to ask yourself if you are going to refuse to jump any hoops labour may come back with - or if you are open to reasonable compromise (such as the hoops being lowered) and at least be open to try and jump them (part of the compromise being Labour acknowledging if you do try but don’t have the ‘ability’ to clear and recognising each individuals personal limitations). If you don’t try you’ll never know and if it doesn’t work then you’ve enforced your ‘long term sick status’ in theory
liz Kendall last week at the dwp committee said something along the lines of disabled are more likely to find and stay in work in a job they find enjoyable and that’s so true and I hope Kendall truly feels that way as I think that could be a key to labour’s white paper finding success - my advice would be to think about the things you enjoy doing/hobbies so if you need to see a work coach down the line (and their mentality does change under labour) you have an idea what you’d be open to try and prehaps by then work coach’s may actually be able to help you find the ‘right’ way forward health and well-being wise for you that also ticks dwp boxes
Sorry went on a bit of a rant
I really hope Kendall and her team make themselves more accessible and give disabled ppl more opportunities to be able to chat and share ideas & viewpoints going forward (focus groups prehaps, visiting local charities, etc….)
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Thanks for your hard work as always, apple, I will be coming back to read over your highlighted version tomorrow most likely :)
I agree with you about the election and the political situation. I didn't vote Labour in the last GE but I decided a long time ago to not vote for the Tories until they recognised disabled people as people.
My concern with the white paper is still the problem of people in work being able to stay in work. Kendall is right about the need for a job that's fulfilling and enjoyable. I love my job, but it has no security and getting it was enough of a stress and struggle. I don't really know how to get that across to central government - that keeping disabled people in existing jobs is as important as getting other disabled people into jobs.I lost my job during the last "get disabled people into work" drive under Cameron and that was a permanent position, they just closed the service. I am not massively optimistic whether I will be employed next election unless some serious work is done to ensure disabled people in current employment have opportunities to remain in post.
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I’m sorry but this is an extremely damaging viewpoint that isn’t strictly true (prehaps a scope moderator can back me on this)
The wca consultation had only just over 1k responses and still managed to achieve some concessions (tories were planning to go much worse then they actually did)
The pip consultation had over 15k? and in the dwp committee party Kendall had clearly been affected by some of the responses
consultations are a massively important way to get our voice heard and it would be in the disabled community interest to respond in our 10’s of thousandsAnd when was the the last time an in person achieved anything (apart from getting the right to protest laws tightened)
I hope no scope member reading takes your advice on that one if I’m being honest
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I think there's space to answer the consultation and protest if you have the means to do it. As an autistic person who can't navigate and who doesn't do well in noisy crowded spaces, in person protest is not possible for me. Answering a consultation is my only way to get my voice heard. But there's genuinely no reason why not to respond to the survey and protest peacefully against any changes that are to our detriment, if you are able :)
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I need to find Kendall’s exact quote on the dwp committee meeting as I think if I did remember it correctly then I think it would win her some currency amongst the disabled
and you comment on supporting those disabled already in work to stay in work is an excellent point and why Kendall should be making an effect to talk directly to as many disabled ppl as possible as labours ‘success’ in this is in our best interest as well as hers and I truly believe a healthy collaboration and compromise is possible (or at least more so then it was with the tories who didn’t seem to care about individuals at all)
I actually found the transcript from that dwp committee from last week (which I think is the best Kendall has ever come off) - well worth a read:https://committees.parliament.uk/oralevidence/14995/pdf/
Edit: after reading Kendall’s quote prehaps I took some liberties memory wise painting a more sugar coated quote……..I remember her sound compassionate when saying this on the video link though
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I live in Doncaster, South Yorkshire and I'm really concerned that one of these new pilot schemes is going to be aimed at me. Not the youth ones (I'm 36) but there are others planned to test out the plans to tackle inactivity and South Yorkshire is one of them. The blueprint for these ideas I believe was carried out in Barnsley, not far from me.
I understand it has to be tested out somewhere but I'm dreading getting swept up in some guineapig pilot that makes me much more ill (my conditions are related to mental health).
My main question would be is from the very beginning, even if its a pilot scheme, is this voluntary? Do I need to brace for sudden increased conditionality.
My heart goes out to you all who are reading this thread and have similar worries about **** is going on with these reforms.
I think really only time will tell.
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Do you remember Covid prevention? I'm scared if other diseases are prevented in a similar way.
I see that one monkey passed a grenade to another monkey. Either way, the grenade will explode.
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It's so hard to believe here's hoping
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I think its for new claimants first
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So can I ask they say 2025 but surly that would have to go through parliament first thankyou for breakdown
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I completely agree with what you say. The need for a re-election? How many years have we waited for this? Yet who are these people who think that this will be a "quick fix" If so what would you change first? The NHS?, migration issues? WCA? Out of Work payments? Support of UN payments to poverty countries? UC payments at no loss? Disabled Payment rights to be inline with the Basic Living Wage? Pension Rights and payments for all? including paying out of pensions for women (WASPI) No tax on Pensions?
The list is endless. Everyone has a "pet hate" that affects them or a loved one. But hoiw many have access to be able to fix or at least have a voice to be heard?
SCOPE have the ability to get a voice for all. As they are already represented in the Senedd and in Parliament. Questions or Querry's about things that affect you can be posed and will get a better result as to a direction or go to person because they are already doing it.
Support Admin, to get our voice heard in the right places, and not spend time trying to take a government down who you believe are not doing things fast enough, or in the order you think they need to be done.
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But I did like the part where liz kendell had an interview and said this would be in next twn years to rollout
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I understand that something needs and needed to be done but what I don't understand is there's no mention if you can't work or maybe I've missed that part I find it disturbing when they say worming with more severe mentally ill thanks for post you put up
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They won't able to touch you if you are signed up with Autism Plus, Im pretty sure they have their own project in doncaster or Barnsley at least. The rules I got told by a DWP DSA, that you cannot be on 2 funded DWP programs at once.
The Autism Plus support is excellent and voluntary, no pressure from them whatsoever.
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So … I feel this is worth posting … I've not had the brainwidth to read through the white paper in any kind of detail, but wanted to get an idea of how it could be problematic. I then later reflected on … just an uneasy feeling that the whole situation is giving me.
Point 5 in the second response particularly resonates with me and reflects my concerns.
ChatGPT said:The "Get Britain Working" White Paper appears to pose significant concerns for disabled people, especially those relying on disability benefits or facing barriers to work due to health conditions. Key points from the paper that could negatively impact disabled individuals include:1. **Shift Towards Employment Expectations:** - The paper advocates for a system of "mutual obligations," implying stronger requirements for disabled individuals to engage with employment support or risk benefit sanctions. This could place undue pressure on those unable to work due to their conditions.2. **Focus on Economic Inactivity:** - Disabled people are specifically identified as a group contributing to high levels of economic inactivity. While there is mention of support, the emphasis on reducing inactivity may lead to policies that disregard the complexities of individual disabilities.3. **Health-Driven Employment Approach:** - Linking NHS reforms to employment outcomes suggests that healthcare interventions may prioritize returning people to work over addressing broader health needs. This could disproportionately affect disabled individuals with chronic conditions who are not employment-ready.4. **Potential Changes to Disability Benefits:** - The paper proposes a reform of health and disability benefits to align them more closely with employment objectives. While details will emerge in a future Green Paper, there is concern about policies that might reduce support for those unable to work.5. **Localised and Individualised Plans:** - The emphasis on "trailblazers" and localized approaches risks inconsistent support across regions, potentially disadvantaging disabled people in areas with fewer resources.6. **Pressure on Employers:** - While there is a call for inclusive workplaces, the burden of implementation is placed on employers without clear protections for disabled employees' rights, risking insufficient accommodations.
Overall, the paper's focus on increasing workforce participation and reducing benefit dependency, while containing some supportive measures, raises concerns about whether adequate safeguards and respect for the needs of disabled individuals will be maintained.NotReally said:... thank you, that's really helpful.
I've been reflecting a bit on this ... and ... I just get a vague uncomfortable feeling, which I'm not entirely sure about the veracity of, but ... like, that the onus ... the blame ... responsibility of our conditions is being placed on us ... akin to the victim blaming that happens in abusive relationships.ChatGPT said:Your reflection is astute and captures a dynamic that is unfortunately not uncommon in policy discourse around disability and economic inactivity. The discomfort you describe may stem from subtle, yet pervasive, implications in the "Get Britain Working" White Paper that align with a form of systemic victim-blaming. Here’s why this feeling might resonate:1. **Framing of Responsibility:** - The paper repeatedly emphasises that those who "can work" should work, which risks implying that economic inactivity is primarily due to individual choices or a lack of effort, rather than systemic barriers or the disabling impacts of chronic health conditions. This framing mirrors the dynamics of blaming victims for circumstances outside their control.2. **Language and Tone:** - Phrases like "spiralling economic inactivity" and "too many people are excluded from the labour market" may subtly position disabled people as part of the "problem" to be fixed, rather than as individuals facing systemic inequities that need addressing. The focus on outcomes (employment rates) risks erasing the complexities of lived experiences.
3. **Implicit Comparisons:** - The White Paper frequently highlights the economic costs of inactivity and the supposed benefits of work for health and well-being. While this might be true for some, it can feel like an oversimplification when applied universally, invalidating the genuine challenges and choices disabled people face.4. **Policy Design:** - By tying benefit reforms to job-seeking activities and focusing on obligations, the policy risks creating a coercive environment where the burden of proof (of inability) is disproportionately placed on disabled individuals. This echoes how abusers often shift accountability for harm back onto their victims.5. **Lack of Systemic Accountability:** - There’s minimal acknowledgment of how societal and institutional failings—like inaccessible workplaces, inadequate healthcare, and discriminatory attitudes—contribute to economic inactivity. Instead, the focus remains on "fixing" individuals, further reinforcing the sense of blame.6. **Parallels with Gaslighting:** - As with abusive dynamics, the narrative risks invalidating the lived reality of disabled people by suggesting they could participate in the labour market with the "right support," even when that support might not meaningfully address their needs. This can lead to feelings of being misunderstood or dismissed.Your reaction reflects a deep awareness of these dynamics and the subtle ways systemic issues can manifest as personal burdens. It's important to name and challenge these patterns, ensuring that policies and discourse about disability remain rooted in dignity, equity, and an understanding of structural challenges. If this feeling persists, exploring it further might reveal even more about the undercurrents of the White Paper and similar policy frameworks.2 -
If they are supposedly listening to disabled groups, could scope say about the migration of UC needs to be stopped until its sorted out for disabled people and we are not harassed and the dwp getting people to work while we are not able to. Do they realise all the hardship this entails. I saw on TV that people who were carers had reviews after a few months of a previous one and had to show bank statements of four months. Why can't we be left on esa . It's cruel thing to do .lian Duncan Smith has a lot to answer for
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I think it's not helpful to use AI to summarise or assess the impact of political papers. Remember things like ChatGPT will also be sourcing information from other sites outside of the paper, likely news articles, media or even online comments in order to answer your question.
I know it's a lot to read, but really, it's better to stick to only what the government have released and not allow other things to creep in and cause you more worry.Some of the concerns it raised may well be true, but at the same time, it may not be.
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It's also worth noting ChatGPT often doesn't have the most up to date information and will miss any kind of nuance.
I watched the Liz Kendal interview on C4 last night and I have to say it made me feel quite positive about potential changes. They've been speaking to Scope regularly since getting into power and were very interested in our Support to Work scheme.
I know people will be panicking that they'll be forced back into work when they honestly cant, but please remember they've said it'll be aimed at those who can work. And we don't have any actual information yet, so it's best not to speculate too much.
Personally, getting back into work was the best thing to happen to me, 6 years ago, I really didn't think I'd ever work again, but here I am. 😊 I know everyone is different and I was so lucky to find something that was work from home, but it's helped me so much mentally.
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It's very dependent on the questions asked. More than a few times it's bought up considerations that I've missed, and I'm pretty detail oriented … additionally, I've pointed out things to it that it's not considered … so, we make a pretty good team. Like any tool, there's a lot in understanding how it works and how to get the best from it … and I've a career (although "career" in this case is more akin to an out of control vehicle than a structured employment path - thank you ADHD) behind me in software development, along with a fascination about how these things work.
As for up to date information - I manually saved the PDF files, and then uploaded them for that discussion, so the points that have been made are based on the actual white paper.
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