Official thread: ‘Get Britain Working’ White Paper released Tuesday 26th November

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Comments

  • Catherine21
    Catherine21 Posts: 2,676 Championing

    But I did like the part where liz kendell had an interview and said this would be in next twn years to rollout

  • Kaliwax
    Kaliwax Community member Posts: 69 Empowering
    https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/946979#Comment_946979

    They won't able to touch you if you are signed up with Autism Plus, Im pretty sure they have their own project in doncaster or Barnsley at least. The rules I got told by a DWP DSA, that you cannot be on 2 funded DWP programs at once.

    The Autism Plus support is excellent and voluntary, no pressure from them whatsoever.

  • NotReally
    NotReally Community member Posts: 69 Empowering

    So … I feel this is worth posting … I've not had the brainwidth to read through the white paper in any kind of detail, but wanted to get an idea of how it could be problematic. I then later reflected on … just an uneasy feeling that the whole situation is giving me.

    Point 5 in the second response particularly resonates with me and reflects my concerns.

    ChatGPT said:

    The "Get Britain Working" White Paper appears to pose significant concerns for disabled people, especially those relying on disability benefits or facing barriers to work due to health conditions. Key points from the paper that could negatively impact disabled individuals include:

    1. **Shift Towards Employment Expectations:**   - The paper advocates for a system of "mutual obligations," implying stronger requirements for disabled individuals to engage with employment support or risk benefit sanctions. This could place undue pressure on those unable to work due to their conditions.

    2. **Focus on Economic Inactivity:**   - Disabled people are specifically identified as a group contributing to high levels of economic inactivity. While there is mention of support, the emphasis on reducing inactivity may lead to policies that disregard the complexities of individual disabilities.

    3. **Health-Driven Employment Approach:**   - Linking NHS reforms to employment outcomes suggests that healthcare interventions may prioritize returning people to work over addressing broader health needs. This could disproportionately affect disabled individuals with chronic conditions who are not employment-ready.

    4. **Potential Changes to Disability Benefits:**   - The paper proposes a reform of health and disability benefits to align them more closely with employment objectives. While details will emerge in a future Green Paper, there is concern about policies that might reduce support for those unable to work.

    5. **Localised and Individualised Plans:**   - The emphasis on "trailblazers" and localized approaches risks inconsistent support across regions, potentially disadvantaging disabled people in areas with fewer resources.

    6. **Pressure on Employers:**   - While there is a call for inclusive workplaces, the burden of implementation is placed on employers without clear protections for disabled employees' rights, risking insufficient accommodations.
    Overall, the paper's focus on increasing workforce participation and reducing benefit dependency, while containing some supportive measures, raises concerns about whether adequate safeguards and respect for the needs of disabled individuals will be maintained.



    NotReally said:

    ... thank you, that's really helpful.
    I've been reflecting a bit on this ... and ... I just get a vague uncomfortable feeling, which I'm not entirely sure about the veracity of, but ... like, that the onus ... the blame ... responsibility of our conditions is being placed on us ... akin to the victim blaming that happens in abusive relationships.



    ChatGPT said:

    Your reflection is astute and captures a dynamic that is unfortunately not uncommon in policy discourse around disability and economic inactivity. The discomfort you describe may stem from subtle, yet pervasive, implications in the "Get Britain Working" White Paper that align with a form of systemic victim-blaming. Here’s why this feeling might resonate:

    1. **Framing of Responsibility:**   - The paper repeatedly emphasises that those who "can work" should work, which risks implying that economic inactivity is primarily due to individual choices or a lack of effort, rather than systemic barriers or the disabling impacts of chronic health conditions. This framing mirrors the dynamics of blaming victims for circumstances outside their control.

    2. **Language and Tone:**   - Phrases like "spiralling economic inactivity" and "too many people are excluded from the labour market" may subtly position disabled people as part of the "problem" to be fixed, rather than as individuals facing systemic inequities that need addressing. The focus on outcomes (employment rates) risks erasing the complexities of lived experiences.
    3. **Implicit Comparisons:**   - The White Paper frequently highlights the economic costs of inactivity and the supposed benefits of work for health and well-being. While this might be true for some, it can feel like an oversimplification when applied universally, invalidating the genuine challenges and choices disabled people face.

    4. **Policy Design:**   - By tying benefit reforms to job-seeking activities and focusing on obligations, the policy risks creating a coercive environment where the burden of proof (of inability) is disproportionately placed on disabled individuals. This echoes how abusers often shift accountability for harm back onto their victims.

    5. **Lack of Systemic Accountability:**   - There’s minimal acknowledgment of how societal and institutional failings—like inaccessible workplaces, inadequate healthcare, and discriminatory attitudes—contribute to economic inactivity. Instead, the focus remains on "fixing" individuals, further reinforcing the sense of blame.

    6. **Parallels with Gaslighting:**   - As with abusive dynamics, the narrative risks invalidating the lived reality of disabled people by suggesting they could participate in the labour market with the "right support," even when that support might not meaningfully address their needs. This can lead to feelings of being misunderstood or dismissed.

    Your reaction reflects a deep awareness of these dynamics and the subtle ways systemic issues can manifest as personal burdens. It's important to name and challenge these patterns, ensuring that policies and discourse about disability remain rooted in dignity, equity, and an understanding of structural challenges. If this feeling persists, exploring it further might reveal even more about the undercurrents of the White Paper and similar policy frameworks.

  • Andi66
    Andi66 Community member Posts: 468 Pioneering

    If they are supposedly listening to disabled groups, could scope say about the migration of UC needs to be stopped until its sorted out for disabled people and we are not harassed and the dwp getting people to work while we are not able to. Do they realise all the hardship this entails. I saw on TV that people who were carers had reviews after a few months of a previous one and had to show bank statements of four months. Why can't we be left on esa . It's cruel thing to do .lian Duncan Smith has a lot to answer for

  • Amaya_Ringo
    Amaya_Ringo Community member Posts: 203 Empowering

    I think it's not helpful to use AI to summarise or assess the impact of political papers. Remember things like ChatGPT will also be sourcing information from other sites outside of the paper, likely news articles, media or even online comments in order to answer your question.

    I know it's a lot to read, but really, it's better to stick to only what the government have released and not allow other things to creep in and cause you more worry.

    Some of the concerns it raised may well be true, but at the same time, it may not be.

  • Albus_Scope
    Albus_Scope Posts: 8,262 Scope Online Community Coordinator

    It's also worth noting ChatGPT often doesn't have the most up to date information and will miss any kind of nuance.

    I watched the Liz Kendal interview on C4 last night and I have to say it made me feel quite positive about potential changes. They've been speaking to Scope regularly since getting into power and were very interested in our Support to Work scheme.

    I know people will be panicking that they'll be forced back into work when they honestly cant, but please remember they've said it'll be aimed at those who can work. And we don't have any actual information yet, so it's best not to speculate too much.

    Personally, getting back into work was the best thing to happen to me, 6 years ago, I really didn't think I'd ever work again, but here I am. 😊 I know everyone is different and I was so lucky to find something that was work from home, but it's helped me so much mentally.

  • NotReally
    NotReally Community member Posts: 69 Empowering
    https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/947233#Comment_947233

    It's very dependent on the questions asked. More than a few times it's bought up considerations that I've missed, and I'm pretty detail oriented … additionally, I've pointed out things to it that it's not considered … so, we make a pretty good team. Like any tool, there's a lot in understanding how it works and how to get the best from it … and I've a career (although "career" in this case is more akin to an out of control vehicle than a structured employment path - thank you ADHD) behind me in software development, along with a fascination about how these things work.

    As for up to date information - I manually saved the PDF files, and then uploaded them for that discussion, so the points that have been made are based on the actual white paper.

  • Stellar
    Stellar Community member Posts: 172 Empowering
    https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/946967#Comment_946967

    In person protests brought about structural change historically, like womens rights, racial equality as well as action on the climate crisis. The rich and powerful dont gives people rights from the goodness of their heart. they do it because the majority of people force them too. Disruption works. Protests and petitions are not disruptive. They are like restraining orders - only as good as the paper they're written on, and laughably easy to destroy.

    Also the UK disabled community took to the streets in the 1990s to bring about the Disability Discrimination Act (precursor to the Eqaulity act). Any UK disabled person who dosen't know this lacks basic history of their ownn community.

    When disabled people took to the streets to change the law - BBC News

    Protest laws getting tightened are just one of many political attacks that will ultimately fail to stop change happening. You can't stop people protesting - you just make it more dangerous.

  • secretsquirrel1
    secretsquirrel1 Community member Posts: 13 Connected
    https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/947233#Comment_947233

    Hi Albus ,

    I think the worry for me who will decide who can’t work ? Will it be the assessors who decide on PIP , ESA,LCWRA . I’ve had a terrible time with them when PIP first started. It wouldn’t be so bad if you were awarded money with no obligation to work while you go through the appeals process. It took my 2 years before and I was left destitute, my conditions became worse and I never recovered. Losing PIP is bad enough now but what happens if/when it’s connected to LCWRA? I physically couldn’t work not even from home due to pain and fatigue among other symptoms. When they say if you can work , it always seems like get out card to me . I hope I’m wrong and I do feel more positive reading the posts on here so thank you it’s much appreciated 🙏

  • JonnycJonny
    JonnycJonny Scope Member Posts: 229 Empowering
    edited November 27

    Here is a very intertesting slant on things from the Benefits and Work website - it is worth reading. It is only an opinion as to what 'might' be in store, but it clearly identifies a narrative from the White Paper as to where we might be heading in terms of the WCA.

    https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/is-labour-planning-to-scrap-the-wca

  • Albus_Scope
    Albus_Scope Posts: 8,262 Scope Online Community Coordinator

    I think we need to be very careful of articles that are just guesswork. Spreading theories around is how ideas by some are then seen as gospel by others. Does that make sense?

    I totally understand your worry @secretsquirrel1 Having been through the PIP process several times now, it really is inhumane, but it sounds like the new government are wanting to overhaul things. The problem is we're so stuck with our thoughts that any change will be bad, as that's how it was (mostly) with the previous government. I'm personally trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, as they've been listening to charities, something the previous government failed to do for many many years. I'm hoping it'll all be a bit more bespoke.

  • JonnycJonny
    JonnycJonny Scope Member Posts: 229 Empowering

    Having read the small article it does not strike me as pure guesswork - it argues its case convincingly and reveals a clear narrative.

    It remains an interpretation nonetheless.

  • HollisMcBobbery
    HollisMcBobbery Community member Posts: 5 Connected
    https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/947167#Comment_947167

    Thanks for the advice I'm going to keep this in mind.

  • Catherine21
    Catherine21 Posts: 2,676 Championing
    https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/947351#Comment_947351

    II'm Awaiting adhd test probley silly question you have to be assessed and given the diagnosis before joining this ?

  • Andi66
    Andi66 Community member Posts: 468 Pioneering
    https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/947482#Comment_947482

    How the hell can they do that, I'm ill because I was working it damaged my lungs, I am currently got another chest infection as I'm prone to them now

    I won't get better . Find it hard to breathe. They haven't a clue

  • lizptsd
    lizptsd Community member Posts: 150 Empowering

    I'm sorry we're really tired of the whole thing what it means or others interpretation of what it means. We are at our wits end. We were falsely accused of fraud by the DWP and are now going through endless **** from them. Our car has now gone caput and we can't afford to fix it so we can't go anywhere as both disabled. Both in our 60's no money behind us but don't worry we know this is the situation of many so not sorry for ourselves as we just have to get on with it.

    The lessons we took from our son taking his life puts it into perspective, we just need to carry on.

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