Green Paper Discussion (from 24th March, 2025)
Comments
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My therapy wasn't from the NHS, it was from a charity where I live specifically for childhood to adult trauma. There was a two year waiting list for a year of therapy. At the same time they lost their funding last year so are even more behind even though there is clearly a need for it. Being just left in the air like this has been awful and made things worse so I will leave it a while and then see how I feel about looking into private counselling later on. You are right about the NHS though. Counselling is pretty much non-existent and even services for serious mental health are terrible where I live. My eldest son has paranoid schizophrenia and has been dumped to street homelessness from hospital section twice over the last three years without even telling me. I'm not sure if the government know or even care how bad mental health services really are.
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that’s a bit defeatist! Whilst you could be right, if people organise and make enough noise, they could modify or change things!
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AppleJacks, hello and welcome to the Scope forum 🤗
As a new member to the forum, you should not be facing this much criticism and judgement for your comments. I understand much of what you're saying. I'm also 60+ without my due benefits but still disabled! If you're a woman then of course you know what discrimination is! 😅
Distractions from today's news, what's everybody doing today?I found this thread on Page 12. Perhaps we can revive it.
🙂
Edit: we did 😀 for today at least!
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Thank you. Everybody seems to be offended these days. I'm not on here to upset the apple cart, I was just saying how it is and present governments and past governments aren't forgiving. This mostly started with the Blair government and he still has a lot of sway by the looks of it, he's been advising Starmer on what to do with benefits. It was just my opinion and I was hoping some people wouldn't take offence, but obviously they have.
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So are you now blaming pensioners, should I be offended?..No I'm not Steller. Everyone has an opinion, not just you.
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https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/keir-starmer-government-treasury-prime-minister-liberal-democrats-b1219597.html
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ECHR analysis 2018
The results forecast that child poverty will increase substantially by 2021/22 as a result of the tax and welfare reforms between 2010 and 2017, resulting in around 1.5 million extra children being in poverty.
1.5 million extra children in poverty!
• Lone parents who are FRS core disabled with at least one disabled child fare even worse on average, losing almost three out of every 10 pounds of their net income. In cash terms, their average losses are almost £10,000 per year.
• Couples with children in a similar position (at least one FRS core disabled adult, and at least one disabled child) also experience substantial average losses: slightly under one in every five pounds of net income – an average cash loss of almost £8,000 per year.
• Households with a disability score of 6 or more in England lose an average of £520 per year from the DLA–PIP reassessment process, and around £1,200 from the five reforms modelled here.
Analysis of the reforms by individual disability ‘score’ and age group shows that average losses from the reforms are greater for disabled adults in the 18–44 age group than for older adults; over-75s with a disability score of 6 or more lose slightly over £600 on average from the reforms, compared with almost £5,400 for under-25s in the same group.
🙁
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Have just signed 👍🏻 and shared
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I’m not a political person by any means, but I recently saw a post from a member (though I can’t find it now) that got me thinking. What if we nominated a leader from our community and officially registered an independent disabled-led party:run by disabled people, for disabled people? If we built a nationwide disability movement and possibly formed a coalition with like-minded established political parties , do you think we’d stand a real chance in the next General Election?
Given the current volatile situation,I’m sure that if such a party were to emerge now, it could truly transform the nation giving a voice & hope to millions, driving real change, and creating a more inclusive society in every avenue .With 16 million disabled people in the UK, could this be a game-changer, or is it too ambitious?
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I googled FRS and found this on GOV.UK
Dataset: Family Resources Survey (Adult, Child, Individual)
Field: Disability Status of the Individual
Description
Whether the individual has a disability or not.
The definition of disability used in the FRS publication is consistent with the core definition of disability under the Equality Act 2010. A person is considered to have a disability if they "have a physical or mental impairment that has a 'substantial' and 'long-term' negative effect on their ability to do normal daily activities". Where by 'substantial' means more than minor or trivial, and 'long-term' means 12 months or more. Some individuals classified as disabled and having rights under the Equality Act 2010 are not captured by this definition:
- People with a long-standing illness or disability who would experience substantial difficulties without medication or treatment
- People who have been diagnosed with cancer, HIV infection or multiple sclerosis but who are not currently experiencing difficulties with their day-to-day activities
- People with progressive conditions, where the effect of the impairment does not yet impede their lives
- People who were disabled in the past but are no longer limited in their daily lives
Classification
Applicable to: all individuals.
- Not a disabled child / adult / person
- Disabled child / adult / person
Total number of categories: 2
Quality Statement
The basis of identifying people with a disability has changed over time:
- From 2002-03 to 2003-04 a person with a disability was an individual who reported substantial difficulties across eight areas of life
- From 2004-05 to 2011-12 a person with a disability was an individual who reported substantial difficulties across nine areas of life
- From 2012-13 onwards a person with a disability was an individual who reported any physical or mental health condition(s) or illness(es) that last or are expected to last 12 months or more, and which limit their ability to carry out day-to-day activities a little, or a lot. The FRS disability questions were revised to reflect new harmonised standards
Comparisons over time should be made with caution, as they may be affected by the change in the definition of disability and individuals might have different interpretations of particular health conditions or FRS question wording.
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I've just signed this very important petition on change.org about the stopping the new 4 point PIP rule. It has just been bought to my attention by @charlie72
I was dismayed though by the fact that so few had signed it! 😳
COME ON PEOPLE!!! We can do better than this. 😊 👍
PLEASE SIGN AND SHARE!!!
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Good morning,
I just read in the guardian that the green paper will be put to the vote before the OBR can publish its impact assessment. Instead they’ll be releasing it in October as the government haven’t released enough information. Baring in mind the Tory paper failed in court partly due to only 3% of disabled would be found work surely their sneaky way around this would be also found unlawful?
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They might be able to put it to a vote, like all their policies, rushed and ill thought out. Let them do it and make same mistakes tories did. You might find this interesting though!!
- Green Papers Are Consultative – A Green Paper is not legally binding legislation; it is a proposal for discussion. Courts generally do not intervene in policy proposals unless there is a clear legal issue, such as an unfair or unlawful consultation process.
- Judicial Review – If the government proceeds with policy changes based on the Green Paper without proper consideration of evidence (such as an impact assessment from the Office for Budget Responsibility), a judicial review could be brought. This would typically be on the grounds of:
- Procedural unfairness (e.g., lack of proper consultation).
- Irrationality (if the decision is unreasonable or lacks evidence).
- Failure to consider key factors (e.g., ignoring financial or social impacts).
- Parliamentary Sovereignty – Courts are generally reluctant to interfere in parliamentary procedures unless there is a breach of constitutional principles, such as the government failing to follow its own statutory obligations.
If a policy is later implemented without an OBR assessment and has significant negative effects, legal challenges could be stronger at that stage, particularly if claimants can demonstrate harm or procedural misconduct.
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Thanks for signing it, I too was a bit dismayed at how few people had signed it so far, maybe it needs sharing on social media too (I'm not on that). Everyone on here should be signing this, ir makes a difference!! Thanks.
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I've just read that article and feel rather better for doing so. I agree 100%.
Disability Activists like Ellen Clifford and Disabled People Against Cuts are undoubtedly going to take this back to the high court as they did will the last government and succeed in getting the current green paper proposals declared as unlawful as the Tory proposals were. I'd be very surprised if they didn't succeed in this again.
I hope you don't mind me putting in the link to the Guardian article.
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I’ve shared it on my Facebook feed and signed it. Hopefully others will do the same. If we get enough support it might give the government a bit of a push back, or MPs food for thought! 🤞
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Thank you , I thought exactly this . Very interesting
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