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"Is PIP fit for purpose"? A welfare process that negatively affects health?

bendigedig
bendigedig Member Posts: 254 Pioneering
edited April 2017 in PIP, DLA, and AA
Since joining the SCOPE community my view on the whole "PIP process" has been crystalised.

Before joining the community I had heard from others about how unfair and unjust the whole process is.  The PIP process is clearly the Idea of an "idiot" or an "evil genius" bent on saving money in order to pay for the shortfall of the defence budget etc.  Clearly it is riddled with injustices, inconsistency and incompetence.  

I have personally experienced high levels of Stress and have been left feeling even more depressed and anxious after having engaged with the PIP process.  I have diagnosis for ASD (Aspergers), sleep Aponea, Depression and PTSD.   I got the little ammount of money that I expected to get from the PIP process in addition to the sense of fear, anger, shame and embarrassment that the process encourages from the applicant.  I know that my health has been negatively affected by the experience.

The creation of The PIP process has forced the sick, disabled infirm and the vulnerable to BEG to PRIVATEERS for welfare payments in order for them to help live their lives.  This is a travesty!  Medical diagnosis should be enough evidence to support a DWP claim for a payment to support an individuals personal independence! A pseudo public official dealing with confidential personal information is bad enough.  A poorly qualified assessor rewriting the needs of an indivdual with a specific recognised condition is another.  From a welfare perspective it is tantamount to overulling the diagnosis of a mecical expert!  This is more than an INJUSTICE.

Ive been lucky though.  I know a lot of people have been through much much worse.  this highlights the first glaring problem with PIP and that is, INCONSISTENCY.

This brings into focus the pivotal role of "the PIP Assessor", fast becoming a reviled and feared individual,  a henchman that invades the privacy of an applicants life casting judgement and aspersion on the validity of the applicants claim.  Who, indeed, What are these people?  Often, rank amatuers (As always I am sure that there are e ceptions to the rule but thats not what we are talking about here) People with a sports science diploma or a certificate in remedial massage, an NVQ 2 in Care?  An individual acting as judge and jury in a complex medical assesment riddled with subtle issues far beyond their knowledge and/or lack of expertise!  The assessor, more often than not it would seem,  is somone who having seen the lucrative financial gain from the salary offered to them, is ready to sell their soul in order to pervert the data they are gathering for their master and consequently the claims that the ATOS/CAPITA paylords are presenting to their paymasters in the DWP are frequently twisted, falsified and at best incorrectly completed.  In turn the DWP can present a reduction in costs to their Paymasters in the Government. This is INCOMPETENCE.

It is my opinion that the government, partly (amongst other nefarious reasons) in an exercise in plausible deniability contracted this process out.  When it failed as it REALY SHOULD, they would be able to blame the contractor for their own Evil Plan.  In much the same way the privitisation of the NHS the Prison Service etc will afford the Government excellent plausible deniability for its own missuse and neglect.

I have created this thread for those within this community and beyond it, who wish to "testify IN WRITING" as to how  the PIP process is, or has negatively affected their actual HEALTH and consequently their quality of life? 

This seems to be a fundamental issue that is readily apparent in all cases where people have been FORCED to engage in the PIP process.

PLEASE contribute to this thread in as much detail as possible how the PIP process is negatively affecting your health and as a consequence your quality of your life.

PLEASE contribute to this thread whether you have been successful or unsuccseesful in the PIP PROCESS.

It is my opinion that if this process negatively impacts upon the health of those engaging with it that ANY GOVERNMENT WORTH ITS SALT would HAVE TO REVIEW ITS FITTNESS FOR PURPOSE!

Please consider this.  The more people that contribute evidence to this thread detailing the negative impact to their health due to the PIP process, the possibility that this evidence might be used to force a review of the process increases.  Either way, documenting this information is incredibly important!  

It occured to me that most of us, within any appeal etc. Would have included information as to how this process is or has negatively affected our health.  At the PIP interview (They came to my home), I stated openly and for the record that, "I was opposed to the process and that my very involvement in it was affecting my health negatively"..  Im sure I am not alone in my protestation?  This means that the DWP and their contracted henchmen know that this process has a damaging effect on the more vulnerable of our Nation and this means that the Government is FULLY AWARE that they are litterally getting away with blue murder at the moment!  

All that remains is for the will of the public to call the fitness of the PIP process into question.

Please detail in your post any negative health effects that directly correlate to the PIP process.  Please also advocate for those who are unable to post by gainng their consent to post their story.

I could be wrong but if WE ALL CONTRIBUTE relevant information to this thread and encourage others to join the SCOPE community in order to contribute, then it is possible that this information could potentially be used to support the question "Is the PIP process fit for purpose"?

Could this action potentially contribute to generating the headline...... "PIP,  the process that is supposed to help people is found to damage the applicants health"! In this event,  Im sure that the Government should, potentially be under a moral obligation to review the whole process.

For my part, depending on the response that this post generates I would be willing to take the information forward (hopefully with the support of other community members) as evidence to support the proposition that "PIP IS NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE"

I have NO political motivation for creating this thread.  My motivation comes from a moral and ethical standpoint.  I have not been encouraged by SCOPE nor have I sought the permission or involvement of SCOPE in this matter.  I can not see why anybody would object to me doing this as it is done in the interests of justice for all.

Sucess in such an endeavour only arrises through consensus and unity so please post generously and please encourage others to do so also :)

Comments

  • janice_in_wonderland
    janice_in_wonderland Member Posts: 265 Pioneering
    Brilliantly compiled 

    I opened my letter yesterday following my assessment a couple of weeks ago 

    I'm unable to add everything that's happened and how my life is affected by things I suffer from although since the assessment I have had headaches and eating and sleeping are hugely affected and now returning to weighing myself on a daily basis again... I am unable to go out as I feel too vulnerable and fatigue is really pinning me down at the best of times 

    I'm very nervous and feel extremely insecure 

    if if it wasn't for friends offering to buy me Aloe Vera juice and supplements etc which are more important than shampoo bc of health reasons I think I might go into very deep depression 

    I've just burnt boiled eggs bc I'm really not functioning properly 

    ive gone from being a model/dancer to a wreck when I was only just starting to feel like focussing on my appearance again after a number of years of being repeatedly traumatised and removing benign tumours 

    I'm not sure what the future holds but the way I feel atm I want to move somewhere rural to retreat and be left alone to avoid humans I believe may cause me any further unwanted distress 

    im allergic to numerous things but I'll suffer the consequences of a cat and a peaceful garden 

  • bendigedig
    bendigedig Member Posts: 254 Pioneering
    @janice_in_wonderland
    I'm so sorry that you are going through this.

    It is clear that you have been affected negatively by the PIP Process.  Im sure that Headaches and sleep problems are the tip of the Iceberg when it comes to the negative impact it has had on you.  

    I find cats very rewarding too.  Its such a shame that this clearly necessary pleasure brings you some discomfort.  My sister had to give up keeping animals for similar reasons.  It was a huge sacrifice for her.
    Thank you for contributing.


  • janice_in_wonderland
    janice_in_wonderland Member Posts: 265 Pioneering
    Yes I am unable to interact and very tearful  but fortunately I have made good friends to help me through although if I was able to go out I feel thoughts entering my mind how I want to confront this assessor bc of how she has destroyed my confidence and I am close to being sick 

    I do not like using words such as hate or evil but on this occasion they are a generously polite way of expressing my disbelief how any human can be so detached and have no after thoughts however one day this will catch up with her and she will face the same situation only tenfold 

    tomorrow is another day 

    next week the fight begins when I'm stronger and see welfare advisor who deserves an award for her brilliant care in the community 
  • bendigedig
    bendigedig Member Posts: 254 Pioneering
    @wildlife
    Thanks for posting,  please encourage others to post.
    If we get enough significant evidence to document we might be able to take this forward.
    The more evidence the better obviously.
    They like evidence the government, don't they?  Well lets give them some.  Then, lets give them some more.
  • bendigedig
    bendigedig Member Posts: 254 Pioneering
    @janice_in_wonderland

    Evil is a strong word.

    As far as certain media reports have led me to believe, people have and may still be dieing due to bennefit cuts.

    Britain is one of the wealthiest countries in the world and has the Fith largest Defence spending budget.

    Causing the deaths of vulnerable people by taking away their income and then spending the same money on Killing other vulnerable people elsewhere in the world actually does qualify as EVIL, I think?

    I think what the government is doing does, whichever way you tilt it look like EVIL.

    ACCOUNTABILITY is also in the dictionary lets start making use of that word too.
  • janice_in_wonderland
    janice_in_wonderland Member Posts: 265 Pioneering
    Adding to that what really worries me is how these assessors are encouraging liars and lying to be acceptable in a professional environment by qualified medics! 

    I'm losing confidence and staying close to home to try to comprehend what is going on in the world 

    what happened to 'care in the community?' 

    If ever i bumo bump into that assessor in public I refuse to be held responsible for my actions bc I've been through so much this has highlighted what the system is all about 

    ive saved this government so much money! I have no idea how I got through operations alone as it was clear I needed a carer and also offered by social services government money towards a flight to see my only daughter in aus but rejected their offer so how many people are taking advantage of the system? How many are getting flight money to see relatives? 

    I didn't feel it was right 

    i was yoo ill to care for myself or my daughter who had glandular fever and my mum had cancer! 

    The CAB told me I ought to have been signed off sick long before I was but I'm forever being fobbed off 

    not anymore 

    and guess what to top it a recent mammogram letter is requesting me to attend an appt next week! Let's hope the lump is only a cyst! 

    Overload! 
  • janice_in_wonderland
    janice_in_wonderland Member Posts: 265 Pioneering
    If there is a 'GOD' then where is he and why is so much testing the vulnerable? 

  • bendigedig
    bendigedig Member Posts: 254 Pioneering
    edited August 2017
    @janice_in_wonderland

    You have my total sympathy and understanding Janice.

    I dont know where God comes into this?  We need all the help we can get though!

    If you check out the word "evil" in the dictionary then I think you will see that there is no mention of God.  At least not in the Collins Pocket thats next to my chair.  there are lots of references to the word God and Evil in the other book beggining with B but thats another thing isnt it?

    I sincerely hope that there is a God because if there isn't, then there are a lot of people today that are going to get away with an awful lot of Evil acts without having to account for them in any way.

    Perhaps we should focus on more corporeal matters before we think about Gods involvement in all of this?  I'm sure thats the way he would want it too?  If I'm wrong I expect I will account for that later.

    I'm not being flippant here.  I do appreciate the magnitude of Gods importance to most people of Faith.  God and religious faith is often all there is for some people to help them reconcile the unbelievable injustices that they might be experiencing.

    It would be nice if the Church got a bit more involved in this sort of thing though wouldnt it?  Its very obvious that they are totally aware of the peoples predicament by the ammount of food banks that the church has opened in the last couple of years.

    Sadly the last time Rowan Williams took a stand against the state pretty soon afterwards they replaced him.  If I'm not mistaken HRH Tossed a disparaging remark his way as they moved him on.  I'm not really sure if other denominations or faiths have spoken out against the government and its Evil ways in recent years?  Then again our government is known for killing so I expect that people would be justified in not wanting to "rock the boat"?

    So, when I say EVIL I mean it in the same way George Bush meant it..... You know when he said "Axis of Evil", or at least I think That I'm using the word in the same way?  After all, George W. wasn't well known for his accuracy with tricky little things like words was he? 

    What we need in this thread though is peoples testimony about how the PIP process has affected them and their health.  Lets try and encourage people to contribute.
  • Nystagmite
    Nystagmite Member Posts: 603 Pioneering
    Part of the problem for me is the way the assessment is carried out. How can anyone decide within 45 minutes - 1 hour what someone's true needs are? The lady who did my assessment, decided I had no hearing problems. Most odd that I'm under Audiology and have been for just over a year now. I had a friend with me at my assessment. He's not medically trained in the slightest; but has picked up on my hearing problems. You can't know what I can hear. All audiology and ENT can tell you is that my hearing is too sensitive. (to the extent that the tinnitus maskers I was given, are too quiet for the Audiologist to hear)

    The lady who did my assessment lied and couldn't get her lies straight. She made assumptions that couldn't be true in the slightest. This resulted in me losing over £130 a week.

    I also find it odd under DLA, I met similar criteria. But the conditions I have, are incurable. We have no idea how most of them will end up. But I'm not going to suddenly wake up and be able to see, hear, breathe and communicate normally. Apparently, I don't have communication issues. Funny how my friend will tell you the opposite. Oh, hold on, he has no idea what he's on about - he's only know me for 4 years and only taught Communication for some 30 odd years.

    I am dreading my renewal. But I'm lucky that it shouldn't be until at least 2026. Unless they change the goal posts again. Don't see the point in having to reassess those of us with permanent and incurable medical conditions at all.
  • janice_in_wonderland
    janice_in_wonderland Member Posts: 265 Pioneering
    I'm nodding 

    I think forcing myself to eat I will function better even though I feel sick 

    What baffles me too is how people less unwell than myself have got more points and they too are stunned at the assessors report 

    my good friend who came with me was cross when I mentioned things in the letter 

    she kept repeating 'WHAT A LIAR' so she's coming with me to see the welfare advisor who knows we are ok to discuss things altogether and have 1 month to deal with MR 

    In the meantime...
    Please universe free me from the hurt this indifferent assessor has caused me and how many others (2 faced lying evil brain draining psycho'?)
  • bendigedig
    bendigedig Member Posts: 254 Pioneering
    edited April 2017
    @Nystagmite
    Hi,
    Your story is very similar to many others that I have heard.

    Your point about the validity of your assessment is totally viable in my opinion.
     What I would really like you to detail is how this whole process ia affecting your health?  You may not even have thought about the negetive, deletorious and detrimental effect that all of this is having on you!  

    One thing about the people of these islands just of the coast of France is that we have been conditioned to put up with all manner of hardships.  As sombody pointed out in another thread and I think its the same for all of us.  We dont tend to like moaners.

    Well Im not asking you to moan about things.  I would like you to have a good hard critical think about how the PIP process has affected you and your health?

    I propose that PIP is not fit for purpose simply because it is making people ill?  Do you agree?  Can you support this proposition?

    Im almost certain you are not happy about it.  Has it caused you Stress Depression and Anxiety though?  I know I have suffered these things due to PIP.

    All your criticisms of the PIP process are entirely valid and provide accurate evidence that the SYSTEM IS A SHAM....  Everybody "in the know" is aware of this.  Especially the buggers that have subjected us all to it!

    What I would love is if people could provide evidence to support the proposition I have made about the PIP process negatively affecting their health.

    As always nystagmite you have my total support in this.
  • bendigedig
    bendigedig Member Posts: 254 Pioneering
    @janice_in_wonderland
    Dont give them any quarter!
    You and @Nystagmite are Bang on about the 
    • INJUSTICE
    • INCONSISTENCY
    • INCOMPETENCE
    WE ALL KNOW THAT THERE ARE THREE I's in PIP

    :)

    lets start gathering EVIDENCE for the other 4th "I" related to PIP.  THE ILLNESS CAUSED BY THE PROCESS.

  • DeeDeex4
    DeeDeex4 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    I can provide original paperwork with my " Healthcare Professional" name plus my First tier Judge, Doctor and Disability specialist.. and will.
    Unfortunately it's my understanding any medical notes have to be requested in writing, I will also do that for you, when in June I see the Neurologist I will also provide her with dates and extreme symptoms and known causation to be made note of... then I will provide that.
    Unfortunately were back to the same starting point as before, Specialists and my word are ignored... I don't want to pee on anyone's bonfire and I'm by your side every step of the way, my Daughter is due turning 16 and myself again in 2 years although palliative with Cancer. I have stood on a principle for 13mths and will stand again, I have no choice, but this way it's on MY terms not theirs.
    i was actually going to my local newspaper with everything to see if they would print one horror and waste of tax payers funding but that's subject to a good day if I can get someone to take me and appointments.
    What we need is a Fairy god mother or Solicitor and a fair amount of people willing to expose themselves to further scrutiny... writing that makes me groan as it will others I'm sure, but it's the only way to make the Beauracrats take notice. 
    We are victims of unforeseen disabilities, but we are only victims of society if we allow it.. I'm not societys victim or dumping ground for inadequate Beauracrats and their hair brained ideas.
    In all I'm prepared to support my claims with Medical Evidence of past Cancer, present 2 Cancers future diagnosis and current mental, physical and emotional stresses endured over the past 13mths and counting... as I STILL haven't heard anything or recieved my backpay or monthly payments YET!!!

  • bendigedig
    bendigedig Member Posts: 254 Pioneering
    @DeeDeex4

    You are bloody marvelous!

    Please dont ever let them get away with how they've treated you.

    I'm hoping that people will follow your superb and very courageous example.

    If people do then that would be great.

    It would be possible to compile a report on the negative effects of the PIP process on the health of applicants.

    You are so on top of this that it seems like yours would make an excellent case study to put much flesh on the bones of what I suspect should be an avalanche of annecdotal evidence and better still a further flurry of more detailed accounts.

    These people should be made to feel ashamed of themselves for what they have done, what they are doing and for god knows what further sick schemes they intend to reveal.  If they dont feel shame already then we need to teach them how to be human so that they are able to be ashamed of themselves.

    Are they not aware how small these islands are?  Do they think they are invisible?  Faceless, Nameless?

    Thank you DeeDee for making such a sterling effort.  You are brilliant.  Lets hope others start posting thick and fast.
  • DeeDeex4
    DeeDeex4 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    Not a problem.. no one strips me naked and beats me with my own shoe!!
    Should I have trouble with Daisys PIP change over you can access her file also.
    Daisy caught Pnemoccocal Meningitis at 11wks 5 days old, a prem baby in HOSPITAL... she's been on DLA from 3mths old.
    Frontal lobe brain damage, Hydrochapalus, Chronic Epilepsy ( SUDEP) alert attached,Chronic Lung disease, Autism, learning difficulties, sleeps a max of 4hrs nightly.
    As Daisy attends a special needs school I know others who would be willing to contribute should the need arise.
    Good luck
  • bendigedig
    bendigedig Member Posts: 254 Pioneering
    @DeeDeex4
    People like yourself deedee should be celebrated, not made to feel like a beggar!  Daisy is a very lucky girl to have such a great mum:)
    Thankyou for being so generous of heart and spirit.
    If nobody else comes forward in support of this then your case alone should spark out cry, surely?
    Lets see what we can do.
  • RomaFree1
    RomaFree1 Member Posts: 14 Listener
    It was prior to Christmas that I first heard that I was to be assessed for PIP. I had been awarded DLA for 'life'. I now feel that I have no life really. My first home assessment never took place. When my OH called Capita, he was told that it was cancelled and that they had tried to phone to inform me??? An outright lie as I chose not to give a phone number! 
    Another assessment was arranged and the person was half an hour late, by then I was shaking and in a dreadful state. I now await the dreaded decision  as it will arrive any day now, I am barely functioning. 
    I have read your replies in this thread (great thread btw!) and it is dreadful the way you have all been treated. 
    Something needs to be done to stop this barbaric way of dealing with the disabled. 
    Please keep adding to this thread started by Bendigedig....
  • DeeDeex4
    DeeDeex4 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    Bendigedig.. start a Facebook page, I'm sure more coverage would be gained.
    i sense the fighting spirit being aroused by unity. 
    Just seen a headline on the news 50,000 lose adapted vehicles because of changes to benefits.

  • DeeDeex4
    DeeDeex4 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    Find me on Facebook Denise Ellis, the cover photo is Lily in RAF uniform, Birmingham UK
  • bendigedig
    bendigedig Member Posts: 254 Pioneering
    edited April 2017
    @DeeDeex4
    You are right to suggest Facebook as a medium for gathering support on this matter of course.

    If a facebook page was started, I just couldnt do it all by myself.  I would need help.  I dont know if Ive got the wherewithall to take on a facebook campaign alone.

    Venturing out into the wider world with this would certainly attract more interest.  I am however a bit anxious about how I personally may or may not be able to cope with a facebook page?

    There is an imense amount of responsibility in this.  I'm not sure that I'm personally equiped to carry it off on such a scale?  I am willing to try though.

    You are right of course.  Thats the way it should be done.  Im going to have to sit back and have a think about this before going forward.  Anybody willing to help with running a facebook page please post your interest in this thread :)

  • DeeDeex4
    DeeDeex4 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    Let's try together, nothing ventured nothing gained, look me up on Facebook and we can PM trying different templates to attract and inspire, i know a person that's got a brain like an AI he designs and writes programs, he would help us, his daughter is disabled also, his wife is my best friend.
    We need numbers, I'm also on forces groups there are so many stories there. I've just contacted DWP as no communication or payment since 20th March, apparently the Judge put 8/02/16 my award for PIP started... DWP say it's the 9/02/16 it changed to PIP... I now have to wait an extra 28 days to correct this error by the Judge, YET the Secretary of State had their  solicitor sitting in on my appeal!!!! Incompetent from the top down
  • silverbird
    silverbird Member Posts: 8 Listener
    THIS country is one of the richest on the world , and This government is supposed to look after those unfortunate not to be able to work, my HM Court appeal is next week I'm a 59 year old man who looked after my family and brought up 5 children and worked until 2005 , I'm type 1 Diabetic (for 57 years) have severe Neuropathy that affects my walking this has affected my sphincter and so am incontinent,I am Deaf need aids over both ears but also have tinnitus so cant wear them, I am Depressed and on a Psychologist referal (now been 10 months but told its likely to be November this year ) This is something I need to do as I've waited half a century to tell someone I was sexually abused by a family member (I can only reveal this as I'm incognito under the name silverbird) but though they know I am on a psychologist referal....they dont know why as I'm mot sure this is a form of disability to them . I can assure anybody who hasn't been abused this IS , it affects you every day , the people around you ,your family and your mental state. There's times I've been angry hurt people I love , and lost them too. in 1995 I was systematically put on anti depressant medication , and only 50 years later ready to tell someone) now my family has grown up I live alone so this affects me more than when I was young and busy. Abuse is there every day it never goes away (as some people think 50 years is along time ago) Sorry I did mot mean to be as long on that paragraph
  • silverbird
    silverbird Member Posts: 8 Listener
    Sorry for some reason All the text didn't come through and only some of the message was processed have you only a limited amount of words/letters in a message ?
  • silverbird
    silverbird Member Posts: 8 Listener
    Anyway , trying to remember the latter part of my text . After seeing an advisor/representative from citizens advice she told me because I drove to the first assessment this would go against me, as they would see my nerve end damage stops me walking but allows me to drive , in fact the neuropathy is painful when I stand but can feel my feet and thus car pedals , and more importantly gets me out when I need to. She advised me to say I now dont drive as this would help my case and I foolishly did sign a write up from the meeting , now I'm really worried I will have my licence revoked by HMC next week , and the car means more to me than anything.
  • silverbird
    silverbird Member Posts: 8 Listener
    Again not all of the txt ...i give up !
  • DeeDeex4
    DeeDeex4 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    Thank you for sharing your story.. incognito or not, no one on here is going to judge or diminish you or your story, it's about the end result and how we're treated along the way by the very system we were apart of supporting and who are failing to support US now.
    Everyone has a different journey ahead.. we are all united by the unjust treatment along the way.
    i hope bendigedig ( who has inspired me personally to fight the corrupt injustice) can get enough together ( even to vent) so we know we are not alone.
    Good luck for next week
  • bendigedig
    bendigedig Member Posts: 254 Pioneering
    @silverbird
    You are heard loud and clear here by us :)
    I too have overtyped on here and learned the hard way:(
    Like you there are many courageous people in this community that all have personal stories similar and disimilar to your own.  Oft time nobody knows what all these individuals are going through in their struggle with life.  All of whom desreve to be supported and treated with respect and dignity.  It takes a lot to say what you've said.  We are right behind you.
    Im so sorry that the state does not understand its own responsibility to its people. I am so sorry that you are being treated in this way.
    Thank you for your contribution.


  • bendigedig
    bendigedig Member Posts: 254 Pioneering
    @DeeDeex4
    I have been looking at facebook this morning since you suggested it.  
    I am pleased that I may have in some way inspired you :)
    I will be in touch soon :)
  • bendigedig
    bendigedig Member Posts: 254 Pioneering
    @DeeDeex4
    I have logged into fb. And added you on my messenger thing Im not named BENDIGEDIG. Its the first time that I have used it for quite a while!
    I don't really like it.
    I dont know how to send you a message?  Do you need to accept me in your messenger first or somthing?
  • DeeDeex4
    DeeDeex4 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    I've accepted you, try again
  • janice_in_wonderland
    janice_in_wonderland Member Posts: 265 Pioneering
    Does this go on fb what people share in here?
  • DeeDeex4
    DeeDeex4 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    No.. totally separate, don't worry this is closed to scope only
  • janice_in_wonderland
    janice_in_wonderland Member Posts: 265 Pioneering
  • bendigedig
    bendigedig Member Posts: 254 Pioneering
    @janice_in_wonderland
    @DeeDeex4 and I have thrashed out the begginings of somthing.
    in the next week or so we will try and get somthing online via facebook.  if you want to get on board please do so :)
  • janice_in_wonderland
    janice_in_wonderland Member Posts: 265 Pioneering
    @bendigedig I'm feeling withdrawn so I'm staying safe in here and at home 

    Not sure of my confidence levels to face the world atm 

    I don't feel like going on fb about it 
  • bendigedig
    bendigedig Member Posts: 254 Pioneering
    @janice_in_wonderland

    l completely and perfectly understand Janice.

    I feel EXACTLY the same way!  

    I HATE facebook.  @DeeDeex4 is right though.  There is little is any point casting a net in a puddle on the shore when the ocean waves are crashing footsteps away.

    The really really want to do somthing, just like you and everybody else who has been subject to terrible injustices due to PIP etc in recent years.

    The sense of helplessness is so overwhelming that it is difficult to bear.  I have been crying uncontrolably since yesterday afternoon.  

    I opened a facebook account after having not used it for litteraly years. This was not easy for me as I had sworn that I would never use it again years ago. I FORCED MYSELF to do this simply because I have to.  If I don't try and do SOMTHING that has a purpose then what is the point in doing or saying anything regarding this issue?

    People recounting what theyve been through on here, this community is great,  it gets it off their chest.  Is it going to resolve anythin?b Sort anything out?  Change anything?  No, it is not.

    It would seem that the world is very much not percieved or engaged with by many people on an emotional level past their cornea.  The world comes flooding in through peoples eyes and ears and yet like a frozen computer they fail to process the data in a way that brings about productive output.

    Janice, you are great.   I apreciate how you feel :)

    You are doing everything you possibly can.  Which is significantly more than many of us are able to do it would seem!

    I'm going to take my son away for a bit of a break.  I will be back to this in the comming week.  I will have limited opportunity to get online in the following week so our Facebook efforts will likely have to wait until I get back.

    Please dont see this as a loss of momentum.  We still really really would greatly apreciate help and contributions of any kind in our efforts to DO SOMTHING about this issue.  Testimony, ideas, thoughts on the matter, all is and are welcome :)


  • DeeDeex4
    DeeDeex4 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    I know it's no constellation to anyone but I don't like FB either.. the feeling behind this is too reach as many people as possible, the group would be closed and people wanting to join would be vetted ( as much as possible) to make sure they are genuine and won't be there to cause problems. One thing out of line they would be blocked.
    As of Monday we all entered scope thinking we were alone, were not, were just the tip of the iceberg, the scope discussions wouldn't end.. you don't have to contribute you may learn things through others discussions. Personal messaging is available so you will NEVER have your comment displayed.. this is by the people for the people, all we can do is just read others experiences reply if you want under a nickname if it's less stressful that's fine.. their is no pressure for anything. 
    We need as much support as possible to put right something that tortures us all every 3,5yrs.. it won't stop unless we stand as numbers at a minimal.
    Please don't stress.. scope discussions are still there until YOUR ready
  • janice_in_wonderland
    janice_in_wonderland Member Posts: 265 Pioneering
    @bendigedig i really enjoy the way you compile your messages 

    atm I'm trying to prevent being RE victimised for the 3rd time and also received a letter to attend a follow up appt for more tests as I have another lump on my left breast I think is just another cyst but it's all getting to be too much so I'm flat out and hopefully the weekend rest will refresh us all as I'm going through the doubt that I can keep fighting for money as if I'm begging 

    self esteem and pride are feeling somewhat dented 

    I sincerely hope everyone enjoys their long weekend ahead and thank you all for being here whilst I'm going through this rollercoaster of mixed emotions 
  • janice_in_wonderland
    janice_in_wonderland Member Posts: 265 Pioneering
    edited August 2017
    Hi @DeeDeex4

    ive been in fb groups and it was unnerving how many members felt suspicious of scammers or whatever people choose to refer to unwanted fake accounts 

    so hard to trust 

  • mikejc9
    mikejc9 Member Posts: 10 Listener
    I have been summoned to a PIP assessment and would like to know how best to face this most daunting of interviews. Is there any useful advice please?
    Mike
  • Nystagmite
    Nystagmite Member Posts: 603 Pioneering

    mikejc9 said:

    I have been summoned to a PIP assessment and would like to know how best to face this most daunting of interviews. Is there any useful advice please?
    Mike


    Take someone with you and request to get it recorded.
  • mikejc9
    mikejc9 Member Posts: 10 Listener
  • janice_in_wonderland
    janice_in_wonderland Member Posts: 265 Pioneering
    From observational experience

    mobility scooters mean NOTHING although missing fingers do
    (please do not chop your fingers off they do not grow back like hair!)

    NEVER go alone! 

    NEVER carry anything! 

    Your friend/relative/carer must carry Everything! 

    Keep breaking for rests! 

    Go to the toilet during the assessment! 

    Go smelly & dirty! 

    Look tired 

    NO eye contact 

    women do NOT wear makeup or have your hair done

    Slip on footwear ONLY! 

    Whether you can walk or not take a walking stick/crutches but then again you are able to 'grip' things so you can't win! 

    If you get to see the computer screen ask for the assessor to read it out OR sit NEXT to her NOT where THEY tell you to sit! 

    You can give give permission for someone to answer ALL questions 

    You are UNABLE to manage medication 

    You are UNABLE to prepare food 

    You are UNABLE to plan journeys 

    You are UNABLE to go to UNfamiliar places alone 

    The list goes on but hopefully you get the idea 
  • mikejc9
    mikejc9 Member Posts: 10 Listener
    Many Thanks Janice.
    It is disgraceful that we have to fight for such benefits especially when we have been receiving them for 12 years.
  • maur64
    maur64 Member Posts: 15 Listener
    I totally agree with you there 
  • janice_in_wonderland
    janice_in_wonderland Member Posts: 265 Pioneering
    Terrible ordeal 

    the day before my assesment my hospital consultant said 'I don't want you to even THINK about working'!

    Then 2 weeks later the brown envelope arrived

    I feel shattered mentally and physically...partly destroyed unsure about fighting and ask myself is it better to be left alone to struggle and hibernate away from the human race
  • janice_in_wonderland
    janice_in_wonderland Member Posts: 265 Pioneering
    One day these assessors will experience suffering be it themselves or someone close and suddenly they will be begging for forgiveness for their lies lies lies! 

    Try to change if you want to RIP assessors! 
  • Nystagmite
    Nystagmite Member Posts: 603 Pioneering
    A warning - they will make the most ridiculous assumptions. Some examples they made with me:
    - I can cook a pizza, therefore, I can cook a meal from scratch. I can't even make a cup of tea, safely, unaided
    - I can go to my parents (which is a familiar place) therefore, I have no mobility needs
    - I have no hearing problems because I can hear from 3 metres (ENT letter said the opposite)
    - I can answer questions like "do you drive?" therefore, I have no communication difficulties. I had a friend at my assessment. He's a retired English teacher and he'll you the complete opposite. My friend explained that I take things literally. He is also finding far too often, he's having to try and explain things in plain English.
    - I said I have the TV on as background noise (I have tinnitus and it drowns out the sound) therefore, I have no concentration difficulties

    Don't mention you use Facebook. They will assume you can socialise.
  • wildlife
    wildlife Member Posts: 1,308 Pioneering
    Hi all, My assessor will be begging for forgiveness a lot sooner when I've finished with her. I'm not a vindictive person and I don't like conflict of any kind but I've got a real thing about fair play and justice. That people should not be able to hurt another human being without being made to face up to what they've done. If I didn't do something it would fester away inside me till I could stand it no longer.
           I have a lot of ideas about what is wrong with the system and what needs changing but no-one's going to listen. I might try and put it into words when I've sorted my own claim out. I'm still waiting for my next brown envelope to arrive but as I sent another letter only 2 days ago I want a DM to read before they make any more decisions am hoping it's not too soon. Good luck with the Facebook idea please let us know what the page address is when you start so we can have a look.
  • janice_in_wonderland
    janice_in_wonderland Member Posts: 265 Pioneering
    @Nystagmite don't even say you use the internet! 

    My assessor came across as so nice and she actually watched me struggling to hold back tears and then typed I was not at all anxious! 

    Anyone or animal could see clearly I was distressed 

    i feel so so sorry for everyone going through this 
  • DeeDeex4
    DeeDeex4 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    With hindsight at my home assessment (2 days after mastectomy) I wish I had had video/audio as evidence to stop my 1st 2nd and high court appeals being necessary.. then the ( back to 1st tier ) and 13mths later would never have happened. My assessor even re wrote my building plans!!!! She said " no steps leading up to the house" I had to provide building plans and current photographs proving 2 steps were there and have been since 1952!!!.
    If they are prepared to go to THAT extent it just proves that they have licence to lie at every opportunity given.
    The worst of all this was my claim was from my first Cancer and running until 2019, then I got TWO more Cancers and a Palliative diagnosis, so my daughter applied for mobility, they turned me down and superseded my claim ( taking it ALL off me ) Feb 16 after a Hickman line was infected I developed MSSA ( cousin of MRSA) which gave me Hypertension/Angina which is still uncontrolled this April 17, then they suspect MS or Paranoeplastic syndrome ( waiting for results).... My daughter 28 had fallen down two steps and broken her foot ( toes separated from foot) a non union break that cannot be repaired as they delayed operating for a year, so is now irreparable she also has 4 small children... her logic was... mother... you've gotten worse, you can't drive, you can't walk 8yards, you need an electric scooter.. I'm applying for mobility........ LOOK WHAT HAPPENED FOR GETTING WORSE!!!!!!!!!!!!.
    My cognitive reasoning is all over the place, confusion, forgetful, at my interrogation this was odvious, Stephanie said " this is what she's like all the while, you wouldn't think she's got 4 A levels".
    Back at my 1st tier 2hr interrogation the Judge said " now your an intelligent woman, when planning a trip you can follow a map can't you?"
    Me, no, Judge of course you can, Me no... but then I've NEVER been able to read a map, it's nothing to do with how my mind works now... I've never been able to read a map.. and it's true. 3 turns I'm lost!!! 35yrs of driving and I'm still map illiterate!!!!
    They write what suits them, re write what doesn't, it odvious. Everyone knows there doing it yet virtually NOTHING since 2013 complaints came pouring in has been done to highlight the frauds committed by these " health care professionals.
    Im not convinced anything can be done from the outside.. someone from within the establishment with firm evidence maybe.
    Where are all the people with a moral compass????
  • Nystagmite
    Nystagmite Member Posts: 603 Pioneering
    Someone on Facebook was asked how they did their shopping. She said she did it online. They wrote she can socialise. 
  • janice_in_wonderland
    janice_in_wonderland Member Posts: 265 Pioneering
    edited August 2017
    @DeeDeex4

    its hard enough dealing with day to day life 

    Im sorry to read what you are experiencing 

    i too get shopping online bc I find I Can't hold carrier bags as weight aggravates my joints 

    The assessor obviously said nothing of the sort
  • Justice
    Justice Member Posts: 206 Pioneering
    @ DeeDeex4, bendegedig, all of you. I have been catching up on all of these posts. DeeDee I am shocked, and saddened to hear what you are going through.reading all of the posts here one can see a pattern emerging, a pattern of lies,inconsistency, unprofessionalism, not to mention downright fraud. I cannot for the life of me see how these people get away with it, they are NOT above the law, and yet they do get away with it time, after time, after time.

    I have posted before that I am writing a book about the plight of Disabled people in the UK, with particular reference to the way they are treated during the assessment process, and as bendegedig has already said, how the stress has affected their condition, and thus their life.

    some of you have already mailed me, and are wiling to tell your story, but I need more, the more the merrier.Please, anyone who would be willing to contribute please mail me at [email protected]
    No real names will be used, and locations can be changed of course. I really look forward to reading your mails. I will not spam you, but I will keep in touch to let you know how it goes, and for you to approve what I have written .
    Bendegedig, regarding FB I used to have an account, just a social one, to be honest I didn't like it at all. If though enough of you think it a good idea I would be willing to try and set it up again. I think it is possible to make a facebook page
    specifically for what we are trying to achieve here. I am no social media expert, but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

    Just in case any of you are thinking " Who is this Woman writing a book, she is probably just doing research or something" I am not. I came to scope like all of you because I am involved with the terrible process of appeals, not for myself, but for my Husband, so i do have personal experience of it. I do sit sometimes wanting to pull out my hair with frustration, and I do feel exhausted, and isolated.
    United we stand, Guys. I look forward to hearing from you.
  • janice_in_wonderland
    janice_in_wonderland Member Posts: 265 Pioneering
    @Justice I'll  be interested touch soon but I'm dealing with MR stage atm via professional support otherwise I have no idea how I would be feeling 

    My first reaction to the assessor was 'What a LIAR!' and the person who came with me used strong language so I have gone through a rollercoaster of mixed emotions feeling unsure if I'm strong enough to cope with it however I'm not alone and would encourage anyone to challenge the procedure 

    sending out postive strength to you bc you have helped me through a very distressing phase 

    thank you SCOPE!
  • mikejc9
    mikejc9 Member Posts: 10 Listener
    First of all; Thank you for your support regarding my PIP assessment. Last Friday I went to my assessment despite everything I did not want to reschedule the appointment.
    It was in a back street in Walsall (who went down one way streets the wrong way?) and it was at five to five on a Friday evening (couldnt be a worse time of day or a worse day of the week)
    Before going I made a formal complaint online to Capita about the lack of consideration given to someone suffering PTSD. A young lady from Birmingham called me offering to reschedule the appointment, she couldnt give me an appointment on a definite day or time (it wasnt up to her).
    I did find out from her the name and the qualification of the assessor. She was a nurse called Debbie.
    On meeting I voiced my disapproval regarding the whole process, my age, the time of appointment etc.
    She was a very pleasant lady who said that she was not there to take money off people but to ask questions and submit her report.
    She did make the interview easier and was very amiable; of course the fruit in the pudding is found in the eating, we shall see.
    I felt more prepared because of Scope members comments; Thank You.
    The online questions were a great help to me. I took photos of my recliner with raised swab, my walk in shower and me with my alarm, the assessor did not want these. I did provide a GP's support letter (£20:00), the name of the care team who fitted my walk in shower, my letter of referral for further investigation into my arthritic spine difficulties (evidence that cannot be argued against)
    I urge anyone who is going to one of these interviews to gather all the evidence that you can before hand to support your claim.
    BTW my GP told me that they had had two people turned down for PIP who had been on DLA (one who wrote to the Prime Minister about their situation and even attempted suicide; how terrible and what a state to be in after the governments pressurisation and dare I say CRUELTY.
    I will let you know how it turns out.
    Thank You Scope and all those who helped
    M
  • bendigedig
    bendigedig Member Posts: 254 Pioneering
    Hello everybody :)

    Im back after a wee break.

    Feeling a bit useless though, as I am not sure how to take this forward :(

    Im still a bit overtly anxious about engaging with facebook.

    I am concerned also that any activity challenging the estabilishment at this point in this way might be viewed by some as a "political act", particularly in light of the recent Election anouncement.

    In spirt however I am committed to "doing somthing"  im not sur of my capability of doing that "somthing" through  face book though?  Support and suggestions would be very gratefully recieved.

    I am aware of course there are others here that are better equipped to take the reigns of the facebook beast.  Please speak out and declare an interest.  The more the merrier as far as I am concerned and Im also fairly sure that also aplys to all those who want to move this forward too :)

    Just so you are aware.  The reason I am umming and awwing about facebook is because the last relationship I had with it wasnt good.  I was very depressed and drinking an awful lot of alcohol at the time.  I know that my feelings about it arent rational but I'm afraid that the experience has left me not wanting to go back there despite the fact that I havent been drinking since New Year.  Sorry to be a bit of a let down.  :(

  • bendigedig
    bendigedig Member Posts: 254 Pioneering
    Hi again
    There seems to have been a drop in interest in this?
    Just to let everybody who showed interest.  I'm still here and I'm willing to work with anybody to further the effort of this cause.  @DeeDeex4 has already committed time and some suggestions on how to move forward.  I'm not sure exactly where that has left us but we certainly have a framework Including an overall aim and some tentative key objectives.

    If you are tempted to get involved or like me see this as a civil responsibility then please get involved.

    I see that there is an inbox for this software interface.  I don't however know how to contact individuals using this software in order to send messages.  Call me Mr. Stupid but it just hasn't presented itself as an intuitive thing for me.

    If you want to contact me personally please do so or like I say just post on this thread.
  • bendigedig
    bendigedig Member Posts: 254 Pioneering
    Deedee no longer seems to be a member of this community?
  • DeeDeex4
    DeeDeex4 Member Posts: 16 Connected
    I am, flu that's all
  • Justice
    Justice Member Posts: 206 Pioneering
    @Bendigedig I THINK I have replied on your wall, but I am not sure if I have done it right. I think in order to be able to send a private message you have to have whisperer rank.  Yep I am up for helping in any way I can. Please don't forget about the Book I am writing, would love your story Bedigedig, already have three kind Ladies on here mailing me regarding that, but the more the merrier. 
    I wouldn't worry about it being seen as a political statement. IT IS :-) We canot be activists and worry about stuff, BUT we need to do it properly whatever we decide, leave the ranting for on here, and present People with cold hard facts about the corruption in the system.
  • bendigedig
    bendigedig Member Posts: 254 Pioneering
    @DeeDeex4
    Thank goodness!  I clicked on your name and it came up as you no longer being on here?
    @Justice
    hmmm.  Im not sure What kind of stories you are after but dont get me going.... Itll be like Jack o nory if youre not careful.
    ill just check my wall thing :)
  • Justice
    Justice Member Posts: 206 Pioneering
    @ Bendegidig  Just the story of what happened when you had an assessment, what the assessment was for, as in PIPS or ESA. What the outcome was, and how long ti took you to reach the outcome, and how it made you feel. Just facts.
  • bendigedig
    bendigedig Member Posts: 254 Pioneering
    @Justice
    I think That I may have already written this down somwhere on here.

    I will write this for you if you like.  

    Im not sure exactly what it is that you want to do with the information though?

    You say that you are putting a book together?  Could you please explain a bit more about the book etc?
  • bendigedig
    bendigedig Member Posts: 254 Pioneering
    @Justice
    When you asked me to email you i thought it was because you wanted to help us in challenging PIP.

    As you said in your email basically that all you were interested in was getting info for your book and not to mail you again about any PIP campaign.  

    Firstly you invited me to email you.  Had I realised the pretext of this was simply for you to compile other peoples information for an edditted book (that you still havent ellaborated on) then Im afraid that I formally dont want any involvement with your book.

    For my part.  Even though some of the SCOPE community have supportted my suggestion to challenge PIP as a group I have to say that given the number of people on here complaining about their own individual circumstances I am slightly suprised that very few people have come forward in unity to challenge the government about PIP.

    DISAPOINTING. I think the word is :(
  • dogsupport
    dogsupport Member Posts: 1 Listener
    Hi thought i would add my own thoughts, i recently had a pip assessment some points given, but not enough, i have to write to appeal (not got round to starting it yet) have severe mental health problems, the pip and esa assessors i have seen, are aware that attending the interview would cause my mental health problems to be worse, so they know what affect these assessments are having on people and increase suicidal thoughts, a close friend of mine hung himself weeks after being called for interview, he was unable to go out at all and said to friends he was going to overdose at the assessment, his DR wrote a letter and it was decided he didn't have to attend but only a few weeks later he hung himself which i believe was triggered by the stress of being called for an assessment. I understand they have to assess people but there must be another way.  I have been told that if in the support group that you should get pip so one step would be combining it into one assessment rather than two. 
  • Justice
    Justice Member Posts: 206 Pioneering
    @ bendegidig I have just seen this post so sorry for the late reply.I did indeed invite you to e mail me if you wished to have your story included in the Book. I fully understand if you don't want to do that, not everyone would be happy with that. I do keep the e mail just for that though, otherwise it can get confusing.I believe you asked me in your mail to " Put my Book on hold, and come and join us"  I am confused as to what you want me to join I don't see any campaign going on here? I did tell you that i am not comfortable doing facebook. I had thought I may try it but to be honest I didn't like it last time I tried it, and I am not technically clever enough to be able to make a good job of it.

    I am sorry for any confusion or upset this may have caused you, that was never my intention.
  • crafter
    crafter Member Posts: 2 Listener
    I yesterday had my Son`s PIP awaiting the results , He doesn't do anything or go anywhere on his own, He doesn't cook or even make a sandwich but was asked does he get a chocolate bar or bag of crisps out of the cupboard so if he doesn't cook he is meant to live on that, I'm sure the accessor wouldn't live on that. He cannot manage or understand money we kept telling the assessor that but she came up with the question of if he had a £1 and gave her 50p what would he be left with. and if he had £10 and gave her £5 what would he be left with yes good that a 27 man could do that but how would that extend to him doing his budget, pay his bills etc. the test for reading was asking him if he recognised the letter A . These are all questions asked in nursery school first year infants at the most . It was very intimidating and upsetting as it resulted in him in tears , my son doesn't cry not even if he is in pain

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